Johann Baptist Didandi *ca.1705 Chiavenna. Lombardia

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starman
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Johann Baptist Didandi *ca.1705 Chiavenna. Lombardia

Post by starman »

Hello everybody,

my name is Gerd Nachtsheim, I am a German researching for a friend of mine whose roots are in the Chiavenna, Lombardia region.

I am trying to find a trace of

Johann Baptist DIDANDI, a merchant, *ca. 1705 Chiavenna, Lombardia

He emigrated to Germany somewhere in the 1730s, first staying in Sobernheim, near Kreuznach, for 11 years, before moving to Osterspai near Koblenz in today's Rhineland-Palatinate

On 2. Feb 1745, he married Anna LEMMELER in Osterspai, widow of Johann Peter ROTISCHIO, an Italian. Giovania and Anna had 8 children, their descendants later moved to Oberfell, Mosella (near Koblenz) in the early 19th century where the name DITANDY still can be found.

While the life of Johann Baptist is quite accurately documented with all his descendants from his marriage in Osterspai until today in Germany and France, his early life in Italy remains in the dark. I assume that his native Italian name was something like

Giovanni Battista DIDANDI (or any possible deviation thereof)

and he might have been born around 1705 in/around Chiavenna, Lombardia.

His fellow citizen Johann Peter ROTISCHIO probably was Giovanni Pietro ROTICCIO(or any other possible variation thereof).
The Osterspai catholic church record simply marks ROTISCHIO as "Italus" with no further details.

Giovanni's record is a bit more detailled
1745
[21.] Nona Feb[ruarii] in facie Ecclesiae matrimonium inierunt Jo[ann]es Baptista Didandi ex undecim annorum continuo domicilio parochianus Sobernheimii in Palatinato alias oriundus ex Schiavenna in Italia, et Jo[ann]is Petri Rotischio p[ost] m[ortum] relicta vidua Anna de Osterspey.


Schiavenna = Chiavenna (written 'as heard' by the priest)

However, his birth year is recalculated from his death record (+22.4.1773 Osterspai, 68y) and I could not find any traces of his life in Sobernheim.

The German church records treated Giovanni's last name with cruelty, variations going from DEDANDE to DE TENDE and DI KLANDY (and, unfortunately, even worse sins). During the 19th century, the spelling consolidated to DITANDY and has been consistent until today in Germany and France.

This is the first time I am trying to dig into Italian genealogical research(so... please forgive my ignorance) and the outlook has not been promising so far. Maybe somebody has an idea where to look for Giovanni Battista and what would be the most likely original version of his family name. I queried some Italian phone book to no avail for DIDANDI or DITANDY or DITANDI

When querying the usual genealogical suspects like family search or ancestry for a last name close to DIDANDI in Lombardia/Italy, the closest I get(other than finding my own stuff on MyHeritage) is
DITANTE in 1884 in Cremona, Lombardia (in familySearch)

I know that those facts are just a bare minimum and they may not even be reliable, his documents may not have been accurate and they accepted whatever he told them.

Maybe, somebody else in this forum has come across a DIDANDI(or whatever spelling it used to be around 1700) family branch around Chiavenna in his/her own trees or knows how to go on from here. Or maybe a link to Johann Peter(Giovanni Pietro) ROTICCIO who emigrated to Osterspai a bit earlier (oo 1741 in Osterspai ,+1743 in Osterspai). He may have been just a compatriot of Giovanni but they may also both have been from Lombardia.

I already found a list of parishes in Chiavenna in a posting in this forum, that would be my(or whoever will be doing further local research in Chiavanna for this one) last resort.

Any help will be very much appreciated

Cheers from Koblenz

Gerd

starman
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Re: Johann Baptist Didandi *ca.1705 Chiavenna. Lombardia

Post by starman »

Minor update:
Johann Baptist DITANDI is mentioned as a godfather in 1743 in Sobernheim, so we can at least confirm he lived in Sobernheim before he came to Osterspai. In Sobernheim, there were quite a few other families of Italian origin like COPIO who came to Osterspai shortly after Johann Baptist got married there (1745)

The German transcription for the church record of the baptism in Sobernheim says he was from "Chiasema in Italy", that village does not seem to exist, probably just misheard/-typed. However, later records like in his marriage entry in 1745 clearly states Chiavenna, Lombardia, I still stick to that theory.

That is not much news, but we know at least that his years in Sobernheim were not a fiction.

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Tessa78
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Re: Johann Baptist Didandi *ca.1705 Chiavenna. Lombardia

Post by Tessa78 »

starman wrote:
25 Jul 2020, 18:11
Minor update:
Johann Baptist DITANDI is mentioned as a godfather in 1743 in Sobernheim, so we can at least confirm he lived in Sobernheim before he came to Osterspai. In Sobernheim, there were quite a few other families of Italian origin like COPIO who came to Osterspai shortly after Johann Baptist got married there (1745)

The German transcription for the church record of the baptism in Sobernheim says he was from "Chiasema in Italy", that village does not seem to exist, probably just misheard/-typed. However, later records like in his marriage entry in 1745 clearly states Chiavenna, Lombardia, I still stick to that theory.

That is not much news, but we know at least that his years in Sobernheim were not a fiction.
Could it be that what you are seeing in the record is Chiaserna?
Chiaserna, comune of Cantiano, Pesaro-Urbino, Marche

T.

starman
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Re: Johann Baptist Didandi *ca.1705 Chiavenna. Lombardia

Post by starman »

Thanks Tessa,

my 1st reply got lost somehow, no explanation for that.

I think that the local priest in Sobernheim wrote what he understood, Chiaserna is 500km from Chiavenna and while the latter was not completely unknown in the Rhineland at that time, Chiaserna (pop: 300 or less) was not a name anybody was familar with in Sobernheim. I tend to stick to the Lombardia theory, he might have travelled along River Rhine, not too distant from Chiavenna, to his final destination in Sobernheim and later Osterspai.

This is all more or less wild guesses and maybes as I have no better information than that.

There is a small likelihood that local court entries in Germany may have some more details with a better precission when it comes to his home community in Italy. Until then, I will have to rely on some random finding connecting to his family name of DITANDI/DIDANDI/DITANDE/whatever around 1700 in Lombardia or other locations in Italy.

Not much of a promising outlook yet, but, as we all know, that is how ancestry research can be at times.

Thanks

Gerd

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