Intra-Italy migration patterns

As a nation state, Italy has emerged only in 1871. Until then the country was politically divided into a large number of independant cities, provinces and islands. The currently available evidences point out to a dominant Etruscan, Greek and Roman cultural influence on today's Italians.
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MarcuccioV
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Intra-Italy migration patterns

Post by MarcuccioV »

I'm trying to sort out my DNA ethnicity results vs documented relatives. My documented maternal ancestors that I have found thus far ALL hail from the town/city of Valmontone, just SE of Rome in Lazio on the Via Latina. I am ONLY of Italian heritage on my maternal side.

According to my DNA results, much of the 50% Italian is mixed with Sicilian, Greek/Balkan, west Asian/Levant, Anatolian, and possibly north African. There is also some Northern Italian, French & Germanic (possibly Swiss) as well. My father's side is strictly Northern European/Anglo, and this is documented back many centuries. My DNA also reflects this.

On my maternal side, my Grandfather had a dark complexion and Mediterranean features. My grandmother, on the other hand, was much fairer with only a slight olive complexion and Franco-Germanic features.

Documentation only goes as far back as 1871. I have read that there was a fairly large migration from Sicily and southern Italy into central Lazio/Rome in the decades prior to 1870. I'm not sure about any migration south from the Piedmont, but I have a couple of documented surnames that have roots in that region. As I noted, I have no documented record of anyone being from outside of Valmontone. Only my suspicions.

Can anyone confirm or shed any further light on these migrations..?
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Re: Intra-Italy migration patterns

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Don't be too much weight on carniagone.
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Re: Intra-Italy migration patterns

Post by darkerhorse »

carnagione
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Re: Intra-Italy migration patterns

Post by MarcuccioV »

darkerhorse wrote: 11 Mar 2021, 18:10 Don't be too much weight on carnagione.
My grandfather (unretouched/unmanipulated). I remember when this pic was taken, even though I was young...
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Re: Intra-Italy migration patterns

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For reference, the darker gray areas on the shirt were a medium gray-blue. The dark areas midnight blue. I also have the color version of this pic somewhere. The house in the background was a mustard yellow and the wall a medium rose-pink.
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Re: Intra-Italy migration patterns

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And my grandmother. The background was rose-pink. She never darkened more than this. My uncle (my mom's twin brother) looked like her and had a Bob-Hope/Richard Nixon "ski-slope" nose. My mother favored her father.

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Re: Intra-Italy migration patterns

Post by darkerhorse »

Have you checked his Italian passport for "colorito"? My Sicilian grandfather's passport lists him as "bruno" (dark) which is how I remember him.

I would trust the passport more than the immigration record, and the immigration record more than US records.

If he was darker than usual for his town then it might be reflected in his description, but probably not.
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Re: Intra-Italy migration patterns

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DNA might be the way to go.
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Re: Intra-Italy migration patterns

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What was the extent of large-scale migration within Italy? Has it continued steadily since unification? What were the peak years? Late 19th century and post WW II?

Also, if you would look at a classroom of Italian children in 2021 Milan.....what percentage do you think have ancestry from Mezzogiorno? (leave aside all the students of Romanian and North African heritage).
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Re: Intra-Italy migration patterns

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I have no record of his Italian passport. His immigration records only state race as "Italian south"...
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Re: Intra-Italy migration patterns

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qualdom wrote: 11 Mar 2021, 19:21 What was the extent of large-scale migration within Italy? Has it continued steadily since unification? What were the peak years? Late 19th century and post WW II?

Also, if you would look at a classroom of Italian children in 2021 Milan.....what percentage do you think have ancestry from Mezzogiorno? (leave aside all the students of Romanian and North African heritage).
20%
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Re: Intra-Italy migration patterns

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qualdom wrote: 11 Mar 2021, 19:21 What was the extent of large-scale migration within Italy? Has it continued steadily since unification? What were the peak years? Late 19th century and post WW II?

Also, if you would look at a classroom of Italian children in 2021 Milan.....what percentage do you think have ancestry from Mezzogiorno? (leave aside all the students of Romanian and North African heritage).
My concern is only with migration patterns prior to 1871. I have documentation from that point forward...
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Re: Intra-Italy migration patterns

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MarcuccioV wrote: 11 Mar 2021, 21:20
qualdom wrote: 11 Mar 2021, 19:21 What was the extent of large-scale migration within Italy? Has it continued steadily since unification? What were the peak years? Late 19th century and post WW II?

Also, if you would look at a classroom of Italian children in 2021 Milan.....what percentage do you think have ancestry from Mezzogiorno? (leave aside all the students of Romanian and North African heritage).
My concern is only with migration patterns prior to 1871. I have documentation from that point forward...
Easy big player....that question was for the forum in general.
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Re: Intra-Italy migration patterns

Post by MarcuccioV »

I knew that. Just restating my focus. Not trying to step on any toes.
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Re: Intra-Italy migration patterns

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20%
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