Handwritten Birth Registration

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bbivona
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Re: Handwritten Birth Registration

Post by bbivona » 08 Sep 2018, 11:16

Thanks to Livio and Angela for cleaning my translation up. On the time indicated on the first page, somehow in toggling back and forth from the document to my word processor I picked up the time from the previous birth entry on the page. Page 2 handwriting was really difficult. Glad you were able to work it out.
Researching Gibellina, Sicily surnames Bivona, Bonafede, Zummo, Ponzio, Bevinetto, Beninati, Fontana, Cipolla, Bruno, Manfrè, Lanfranca, and Navarra

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Re: Handwritten Birth Registration

Post by nicolep » 08 Sep 2018, 17:14

AngelaGrace56 wrote:
08 Sep 2018, 08:15
nicolep wrote:
08 Sep 2018, 07:51
Wow thank you both so much.

Amazingly enough, I think I now know who raised him. A few weeks back we found a reference to a "step brother" in some military paperwork. I was able to track down the daughter of this step-brother and sent a long shot email asking if her father had ever mentioned Arturo. I assumed they were just close friends. As it turns out, she remembers talking with her father and Arturo about them being raised together.

This also helps explain why there are literally no other Paggettis in Bergamo. All of the ones I've found are in central Italy (in the same town, even!). Now it just makes me wonder why that name was chosen. It doesn't seem common.

Thank you all again for all of the help. I still wish we could have learned who his biological parents were, but I suppose on a real level it is less important who they are than who the people who raised him are.
Wow! That is fantastic news! Great detective work there. I'm wondering whether it would be worth you writing away for his military records. Sometimes the Liste di Leva (Conscription Lists) include an address but not always. Having an address would help confirm things maybe.

Angela
Thanks! He left Italy shortly after he turned 18 so I don't think he would have been in the military in Italy, but he was in the US Army and we have those records.

You've all be so helpful, thank you!

Obviously no one can know for sure, but does anyone have any idea why the delegate would have chosen this surname? Paggetti only seems to exist in central Italy and (appears) to be a rather rare surname. From my admittedly brief research about abandoned children of the time, it seems most were given names related to location or directly referencing their status. Before I got back to my family, who identify very strongly with this surname, I'd like some ideas on where this might have come from (or, perhaps, that it was common to just choose a name from a more distant province).

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Re: Handwritten Birth Registration

Post by AngelaGrace56 » 08 Sep 2018, 22:31

bbivona wrote:
08 Sep 2018, 11:16
Thanks to Livio and Angela for cleaning my translation up. On the time indicated on the first page, somehow in toggling back and forth from the document to my word processor I picked up the time from the previous birth entry on the page. Page 2 handwriting was really difficult. Glad you were able to work it out.
Happy to help. It was a great team effort. The handwriting was tricky and I got stumped on that section that Livio tidied up because of the script and some unknown words. It's so strange because I spent ages looking for the word "ospedale" (hospital) and couldn't see it. Then after I read Livio's translation I saw the word "spedale" so clearly, yet missed it earlier. (Spedale was the word we always used at home for hospital, not Ospedale.)

Welcome back, Livio! I hope you and your family are well.

Angela

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Re: Handwritten Birth Registration

Post by AngelaGrace56 » 08 Sep 2018, 22:37

nicolep wrote:
08 Sep 2018, 17:14
AngelaGrace56 wrote:
08 Sep 2018, 08:15
nicolep wrote:
08 Sep 2018, 07:51
Wow thank you both so much.

Amazingly enough, I think I now know who raised him. A few weeks back we found a reference to a "step brother" in some military paperwork. I was able to track down the daughter of this step-brother and sent a long shot email asking if her father had ever mentioned Arturo. I assumed they were just close friends. As it turns out, she remembers talking with her father and Arturo about them being raised together.

This also helps explain why there are literally no other Paggettis in Bergamo. All of the ones I've found are in central Italy (in the same town, even!). Now it just makes me wonder why that name was chosen. It doesn't seem common.

Thank you all again for all of the help. I still wish we could have learned who his biological parents were, but I suppose on a real level it is less important who they are than who the people who raised him are.
Wow! That is fantastic news! Great detective work there. I'm wondering whether it would be worth you writing away for his military records. Sometimes the Liste di Leva (Conscription Lists) include an address but not always. Having an address would help confirm things maybe.

Angela
Thanks! He left Italy shortly after he turned 18 so I don't think he would have been in the military in Italy, but he was in the US Army and we have those records.

You've all be so helpful, thank you!

Obviously no one can know for sure, but does anyone have any idea why the delegate would have chosen this surname? Paggetti only seems to exist in central Italy and (appears) to be a rather rare surname. From my admittedly brief research about abandoned children of the time, it seems most were given names related to location or directly referencing their status. Before I got back to my family, who identify very strongly with this surname, I'd like some ideas on where this might have come from (or, perhaps, that it was common to just choose a name from a more distant province).
Hi Nicole

Just quickly as I'm on my way out:

The surname given to an abandoned child was (normally) a surname that was "not" currently found in the town. You may never now why the official chose to give your greatgrandfather the surname "Paggetti". What you could do, when you have time, is review the other abondandoned birth records for the town of Bergamo, and see if you can establish some sort of rhythm there for the surnames given to abandoned children. You could also start up a separate forum for the naming traditions of abandoned children, mentioning the surname and town. I think the general topic has already been covered several times, but, who knows, maybe someone who has researched the town can give you some insight.

I came across this thread here which you may be interested in reading (note especially the comments made by Suanj): https://www.italiangenealogy.com/forum/ ... ren#p23415

You might be interested in the following name distribution of Paggetti: https://www.mappadeicognomi.it/en/index ... i&s=Search

Best to you.

Angela

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Re: Handwritten Birth Registration

Post by AngelaGrace56 » 09 Sep 2018, 04:32

Following on from my previous post here, I also wanted to mention a good book called "Sacrificed for Honour" by David I Kertzer which explores the topic of infant abandonment in Italia, which you might find interesting. On pages 119-122 inclusive, there is a section on "Naming the Foundlings" which is quite insightful. You should be able to get it out of your local library.

Angela

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Re: Handwritten Birth Registration

Post by nicolep » 12 Sep 2018, 02:25

Thank you, Angela, for the advise and further research recommendations. I will definitely pick up a copy of the book!

It is funny how learning something like this, while not at all what we expected, also clarifies some of the family lore we heard growing up. What little we knew about Arturo's life in Italy was that he didn't "remember" his mother's name and his father abandoned the family (which then warped into some tall tales of diamond mining in Argentina and the Cosa Nostra as the generations went on.....). We always assumed he meant his father left when he was young, but this adds a whole new light on that one-off comment. Also, learning a bit about the family that raised him explains the weird and unfounded stance that he was Sicilian (no matter how many times I pointed out that Bergamo is about as far away from Sicily as you can get and remain in Italy) - the father of the family that raised him was, in fact, born in Sicily.

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Re: Handwritten Birth Registration

Post by AngelaGrace56 » 13 Sep 2018, 01:31

Happy to help, Nicole. Thank you for sharing some of Arturo's story. Interesting about the "diamond mining in Argentina and the Cosa Nostra". That must have come from somewhere? It probably wouldn't have been an easy life for Arturo growing up with his background. Abandoned children were often ridiculed and grew up feeling the shame of their abandonment..... It was sad and cruel.

Best to you with your research. Just ask if you need any further help. There are always lots of good people here happy to help.

Angela :)

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Re: Handwritten Birth Registration

Post by nicolep » 14 Sep 2018, 23:58

I've always been pretty sure it came from wild imaginations mixed with a hint of truth (Arturo did take a short trip to Argentina after coming to America so someone probably heard that and extrapolated and the family that raised him were Sicilian so again...someone heard something and ran with it :D). When people have so little to go on, they often think up something that "makes sense." You see it a lot in American genealogy research at the turn of the 20th century where nearly every family claimed to be descended from a Native American princess (usually Cherokee...how many Cherokee 'princesses' did people think there were!?) and European nobility .

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Re: Handwritten Birth Registration

Post by AngelaGrace56 » 15 Sep 2018, 01:15

:) Cute story re being related to an indigenous American princess - I can relate....

Angela

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Re: Handwritten Birth Registration

Post by nicolep » 16 Sep 2018, 06:46

You've all been so helpful but if I could get one last favor:

http://dl.antenati.san.beniculturali.it ... ewsIndex=0

On the fifth - seventh lines, can someone tell me what the words are (in Italian) as much as possible? The English translations have been so helpful but I find myself curious what the original words were (I'm a nerd for language!)

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Re: Handwritten Birth Registration

Post by AngelaGrace56 » 16 Sep 2018, 07:03

Nicole, which record are you meaning?

Angela

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Re: Handwritten Birth Registration

Post by liviomoreno » 16 Sep 2018, 08:21

in Italian:
Il dichiarante ha denunciato la nascita suddetta nella sua qualità di Ufficiale a ciò delegato dal Direttore di questo Civico Spedale nel quale venne dato alla luce il bambino preindicato che si dispensa dalla presentazione attesa la sua gracilità, essendomi altrimenti accertato della verità della nascita.

In English:
The declarant indicated the aforementioned (suddetta) birth beying him an Official delegated by the director of this Civil Hospital in which the aforementioned child was born, whose presentation was exempted because af his frailty, having ascertained otherwise that the birth was true.

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Re: Handwritten Birth Registration

Post by nicolep » 16 Sep 2018, 21:37

liviomoreno wrote:
16 Sep 2018, 08:21
in Italian:
Il dichiarante ha denunciato la nascita suddetta nella sua qualità di Ufficiale a ciò delegato dal Direttore di questo Civico Spedale nel quale venne dato alla luce il bambino preindicato che si dispensa dalla presentazione attesa la sua gracilità, essendomi altrimenti accertato della verità della nascita.

In English:
The declarant indicated the aforementioned (suddetta) birth beying him an Official delegated by the director of this Civil Hospital in which the aforementioned child was born, whose presentation was exempted because af his frailty, having ascertained otherwise that the birth was true.
Thank you for this. I was really struggling with "civico spedale nel quale" for some reason.

I think it was spedale that threw me off as that isn't a translation I know for "hospital" but I suppose it could have just been miswritten. Or an old translation.

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Re: Handwritten Birth Registration

Post by bbivona » 17 Sep 2018, 00:41

nicolep wrote:
16 Sep 2018, 21:37

Thank you for this. I was really struggling with "civico spedale nel quale" for some reason.

I think it was spedale that threw me off as that isn't a translation I know for "hospital" but I suppose it could have just been miswritten. Or an old translation.
Hi Nicole

Spedale would have been correct at the time. It is an archaic spelling for ospedale. Sometimes you also see similar versions of the word when dialect creeps. In Sicilian records I've occasionally seen spitali, which is the Sicilian word for hospital.
Researching Gibellina, Sicily surnames Bivona, Bonafede, Zummo, Ponzio, Bevinetto, Beninati, Fontana, Cipolla, Bruno, Manfrè, Lanfranca, and Navarra

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