Translation check - foundling birth act for Filippo Androsiglio

Having problems with the Italian language? Do you need help to translate or understand an old family document? There is always someone who can help you!
Post Reply
User avatar
rfiorille
Rookie
Rookie
Posts: 47
Joined: 05 Feb 2005, 00:00
Location: Jersey City, New Jersey
Contact:

Translation check - foundling birth act for Filippo Androsiglio

Post by rfiorille » 11 Sep 2019, 23:48

I would greatly appreciate if someone could check my deciphering of this record (2 pages in the links below) and correct google's/my translation. Some parts of the translation I'm not getting.

Thank you!
Robert Fiorille

First page of birth act.

Second page of birth act.

My deciphering:

Spedale di S. Spirito in Palermo Secondo Dipartimento - esposti. Il giorno ventidue Dicembre 1822. Il Direttore Chierastico del Dipartimento l'Uffiziale dello Stato Civile di questo comune nell' intendenza di Palermo che il giorno venti sudetto mese, ed anno ad ore 16 di Sicilia si é ricevuto un infante neonato coll'Umbellico vivo, bello, e grosso assai, nascavella, capelli castagni con li scollimento regolare, occhi cervini. involto in due pezze lista per fascia e cammisolla vecchia battezzato in questa chiesa detto giorno ad ore undici chiamandolo Filippo

Google's/my translation:

San Spirito Hospital in Palermo Second Department - exposed. On the twenty-second day of December 1822. The Clerical Director of the Department of the Civil Status of this commune in Palermo who on the twentieth day of the month, and year at 16 of Sicily received a newborn infant with live umbellicus, beautiful, and very large, was born, chestnut hair with a regular break, deer eyes, wrapped in two pieces list by stripe and old camisole. Baptized in this church called day at eleven o'clock calling it Philip

AngelaGrace56
Master
Master
Posts: 4515
Joined: 16 Oct 2012, 10:54

Re: Translation check - foundling birth act for Filippo Androsiglio

Post by AngelaGrace56 » 12 Sep 2019, 23:37

rfiorille wrote:
11 Sep 2019, 23:48
I would greatly appreciate if someone could check my deciphering of this record (2 pages in the links below) and correct google's/my translation. Some parts of the translation I'm not getting.

Thank you!
Robert Fiorille

First page of birth act.

Second page of birth act.

My deciphering:

Spedale di S. Spirito in Palermo Secondo Dipartimento - esposti. Il giorno ventidue Dicembre 1822. Il Direttore Chierastico del Dipartimento l'Uffiziale dello Stato Civile di questo comune nell' intendenza di Palermo che il giorno venti sudetto mese, ed anno ad ore 16 di Sicilia si é ricevuto un infante neonato coll'Umbellico vivo, bello, e grosso assai, nascavella, capelli castagni con li scollimento regolare, occhi cervini. involto in due pezze lista per fascia e cammisolla vecchia battezzato in questa chiesa detto giorno ad ore undici chiamandolo Filippo

Google's/my translation:

San Spirito Hospital in Palermo Second Department - exposed. On the twenty-second day of December 1822. The Clerical Director of the Department of the Civil Status of this commune in Palermo who on the twentieth day of the month, and year at 16 of Sicily received a newborn infant with live umbellicus, beautiful, and very large, was born, chestnut hair with a regular break, deer eyes, wrapped in two pieces list by stripe and old camisole. Baptized in this church called day at eleven o'clock calling it Philip
I'm just bumping this for you so that it doesn't get lost. You've done a really great job of deciphering the somewhat tricky script here. The following is my interpetation, but will probably need tweaking. Google translate doesn't really do justice to the translating of civil records.

The newborn male baby was left at the Wheel of the San Spirito Hospital in Palermo and received there on 20 December 1822. I'm understanding that the umbilical chord was still attached, he was beautiful, very big, born with brown hair, regular neck and chin, with deer eyes? He was wrapped in two rags, with a strip for a band, and an old (night)shirt. He was baptized in this Church on said day (22 December), 11 am and given the name Filippo.

Possibly the reference to "deer eyes" relates to the shape of the eyes more than the colour of brown/green – not sure? (Newborn babies are usually pretty sleepy and seldom have their eyes open long enough to exactly determine the colour. The colour often changes over the next few months anyway.)

Angela

User avatar
rfiorille
Rookie
Rookie
Posts: 47
Joined: 05 Feb 2005, 00:00
Location: Jersey City, New Jersey
Contact:

Re: Translation check - foundling birth act for Filippo Androsiglio

Post by rfiorille » 13 Sep 2019, 15:14

Thank you Angela! I was watching my post steadily drop with 0 replies and had my finger on the bump button :)

I really appreciate and agree with most of your interpretation but would love to hear if anyone wants to do some tweaking.

I interpreted too that the umbilical was attached. I wonder if the fact that it was says anything about the nature of the birth, i.e. was it rushed. My understanding with foundlings is that a lot of information about the way the infant was found was written down in the event that if someone came to claim the baby as their own they would have to give some of this information as proof that they left it. Maybe that's why some of these things are mentioned, but some seem very particular.

Your insight about a babies eyes being closed and changing color when they are born is interesting. I'm understaning "cervini" to be the plural of cervino since they are talking about eyeS. I can only find a definition of cervino in Italian referring to a female deer, or deer-like. The Latin derivative "cervinus" has a definition of "tawny, deerskin brown". So I'm unsure as well about whether "occhi cervini" referred to the shape or the color.

Also, I translated the hair as chestnut, but you said brown. I know the colors are similar but I'm wondering, do you think they just meant brown, or do you know if "capelli castagni" was or is normally used to describe brown hair? I know there's no way of knowing exactly what they meant - I'm just curious. "Cervini" and "castagni" seem very peculiar. Maybe the person who described the baby was just very particular about color? :P

Thank you again for the help and the bump!
Robert

AngelaGrace56
Master
Master
Posts: 4515
Joined: 16 Oct 2012, 10:54

Re: Translation check - foundling birth act for Filippo Androsiglio

Post by AngelaGrace56 » 13 Sep 2019, 21:58

rfiorille wrote:
13 Sep 2019, 15:14
Thank you Angela! I was watching my post steadily drop with 0 replies and had my finger on the bump button :) :)

I really appreciate and agree with most of your interpretation but would love to hear if anyone wants to do some tweaking.

I interpreted too that the umbilical was attached. I wonder if the fact that it was says anything about the nature of the birth, i.e. was it rushed. Not sure – maybe. It also may have been because the mother was alone when she had Fillipo? My understanding with foundlings is that a lot of information about the way the infant was found was written down in the event that if someone came to claim the baby as their own they would have to give some of this information as proof that they left it. Maybe that's why some of these things are mentioned, but some seem very particular. I don't remember coming across a previous Birth Record for a foundling which gives so much personal detail about the child's features. (Most of the features are going to change over time anyway, especially hair and eye colour.) Most of the records I have seen give details about the clothing the child was wearing, any little gifts or notes that were left with the child, any distinguishing marks on the child etc. This all had to be written down incase, as you have mentioned, the parents at a later stage wanted to recognise the child as their own. .

Your insight about a babies eyes being closed and changing color when they are born is interesting. I'm understaning "cervini" to be the plural of cervino since they are talking about eyeS. I can only find a definition of cervino in Italian referring to a female deer, or deer-like. The Latin derivative "cervinus" has a definition of "tawny, deerskin brown". So I'm unsure as well about whether "occhi cervini" referred to the shape or the color. It would be interesting to know. I agree with cervino/i translating to deer but I'm wondering also whether it might be a Sicilian adjective????

Also, I translated the hair as chestnut, but you said brown. I know the colors are similar but I'm wondering, do you think they just meant brown, or do you know if "capelli castagni" was or is normally used to describe brown hair? I've personally always translated castagna to brown, but I would say that it is a reddish brown – the colour of chestnuts. (We use to go collecting chestnuts as children. They were brown.) The other word for brown, that I grew up with was "Marrone". Usually in military records I've seen either "bruno" or "castano/i" to describe brown hair and eyes. I'd say castano and bruno would be more usual. I know there's no way of knowing exactly what they meant - I'm just curious. "Cervini" and "castagni" seem very peculiar. Maybe the person who described the baby was just very particular about color? :P I'd really like to know what was meant by Cervini as well. Hopefully someone else will know. It sounds likes he was a really beautiful baby, but then all babies are. :)

Thank you again for the help and the bump!
Robert
Happy to help. It's been very interesting. I look forward to some tweaking so we have some clarification/confirmation.

Angela :D

User avatar
rfiorille
Rookie
Rookie
Posts: 47
Joined: 05 Feb 2005, 00:00
Location: Jersey City, New Jersey
Contact:

Re: Translation check - foundling birth act for Filippo Androsiglio

Post by rfiorille » 13 Sep 2019, 22:09

Yes, all very interesting! I'm looking forward to tweaking as well, but thank you for your input about the colors!

Robert

Post Reply