Translation needed-Family Bible

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AngelaGrace56
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Re: Translation needed-Family Bible

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Translation for the bottom cutting is:

"This book was bought in Rome the year 1813
I Nicola Natale Patrone"

Angela
Allyson1
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Re: Translation needed-Family Bible

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This may seem like a silly question, but is that his full given name with "Patrone" being the family surname?
AngelaGrace56
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Re: Translation needed-Family Bible

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Allyson1 wrote: 19 Feb 2020, 01:35 This may seem like a silly question, but is that his full given name with "Patrone" being the family surname?
That's what I am understanding, except when I first looked at it, I thought it was saying that he was the owner of the book, (because in the dialect we spoke at home, patrone meant owner, and then I rethought it, and decided that in this case "Patrone" was a surname, with the two given names Nicola, Natale.

Angela
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Re: Translation needed-Family Bible

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In the first picture, is it a memorial to a sister who died in an accident?
AngelaGrace56
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Re: Translation needed-Family Bible

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Allyson1 wrote: 19 Feb 2020, 05:54 In the first picture, is it a memorial to a sister who died in an accident?
Why? Did a sister die in an accident?

The following isn't perfect, and I'm still thinking about it, and trying to figure it out. I'm wondering whether it may have some Southern Italian words in it. If so, hopefully someone like Pippo will be able to work it out.

This is what I'm sort of understanding:

Following the marriage on 19 September 1815, of my sister Maria Natale, aged around 19, with Nicol Angelo, of the King? ... aged around 20, and in memory of/to commemorate the deaths/killings? of the Giacobbini, and first God, then the Pope, then our legitimate Sovereign Ferdinando IV, and live and live and live – (I think this means "Long live the king"?)
Torino

Do you know which version of Bible it is and what language it's in?

Angela
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Re: Translation needed-Family Bible

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Wow! That's more than I thought it was. I just recognized the word sorella/sister and what I thought was the word acidenti/accident. Good thing I asked 🙄

Who or what is Giacobbini?

I'll take a picture of the inside cover and post it
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Re: Translation needed-Family Bible

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Attachments
family bible inside cover.jpg
AngelaGrace56
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Re: Translation needed-Family Bible

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Allyson1 wrote: 19 Feb 2020, 16:20 Wow! That's more than I thought it was. I just recognized the word sorella/sister and what I thought was the word acidenti/accident. Good thing I asked 🙄

Who or what is Giacobbini?

I'll take a picture of the inside cover and post it

I'm still not convinced I have this completely correct, so hopefully someone else will take a look.

The Giacobbini were a political group.

Thanks for the pic. I'll take a look at this later.

Angela
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Re: Translation needed-Family Bible

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"A dì 19 settembre 1815 fu seguito lo sposalizio di mia sorella Maria Natali con Nicol Angelo del Rè e l'età di lei d'anni 19 in circa, e lo sposo d'anni 20 in circa, e per ritrovare maggior memoria a acidenti ai Giacobbini, e prima Iddio e poi il Papa e poi il nostro sovrano Ferdinando IV nostro leggitimo e viva e viva e viva"
Giuseppe "Pippo" Moccaldi

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AngelaGrace56
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Re: Translation needed-Family Bible

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PippoM wrote: 19 Feb 2020, 18:35 "A dì 19 settembre 1815 fu seguito lo sposalizio di mia sorella Maria Natali con Nicol Angelo del Rè e l'età di lei d'anni 19 in circa, e lo sposo d'anni 20 in circa, e per ritrovare maggior memoria a acidenti ai Giacobbini, e prima Iddio e poi il Papa e poi il nostro sovrano Ferdinando IX nostro leggitimo e viva e viva e viva"
Ciao Pippo

How would you define the meaning of the word "acidenti as written here"?

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Re: Translation needed-Family Bible

Post by PippoM »

No, Maria did not die... :)
"Accidenti" is just a curse (something like "Damn!") against the French.
After 1805 the Bourbon's had been defeated by Napoleon, and first Giuseppe Bonaparte, and then Gioacchino Murat, became kings of Naples. People called the French "Giacobini", like the party that led the French Revolution, though that Party did no more exist at that time (they had already been beaten when Napoleon got the power). However, the French were said to have no God, and were enemies of the Church and of the Pope, so they were still called "Giacobini", like those who had ruled France, and whose Neapolitan supporters had helped the previous conquer of Naples in 1798.
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Re: Translation needed-Family Bible

Post by PippoM »

So, Nicola Natali was a supporter of the Bourbon's, and was happy for the defeat of Gioacchino Murat, who had to leave Naples in May 1815, and was shot in Oct 1815, after a last desperate attempt of reconquering Southern Italy.
He says "Damn the Giacobins, God above all, then the Pope, and hooray for our king Ferdinand IV".
That explains why he wrote this in a Bible.

I just forgot...I think "patrone" actually meant "owner", in this case.
Giuseppe "Pippo" Moccaldi

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Re: Translation needed-Family Bible

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Holy cow! I had no idea anyone in our family was so passionate about politics. Now I just need to find out how he fits into the Tree. I tried to find the marriage of the sister in 1815 in the Padula, Salerno Archives, which is where most of the family originated, but had no luck. Any other suggestions?
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Re: Translation needed-Family Bible

Post by Allyson1 »

Doberso

Patron is not a name that has appeared before in our Family Tree. However, there is always a possibility, so I don't want to dismiss it. Previous responses to this post believe it may mean "owner" of the book that it appears in.
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