Help with handwriting of the publicazioni di matromonio of my great-great-great grandfathers

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barbeta
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Help with handwriting of the publicazioni di matromonio of my great-great-great grandfathers

Post by barbeta »

Hi everyone,
Finally I was able to find both the "Publicazioni di Matrimonio" and the "Atti di Matrimonio" of my great-great-great grandfathers (both linked below)

I'm having issues with:
- The age of Antonino (the father of Luigi) stated in the Publicazioni. Is sessantatre 63?
- The surname of the mother of Luigi: Anna Miane/Miano/Miana? (it's written different in both documents)
- At the bottom of the Publicazioni there's a lot of handwriting. I can't read nothing at all with the exception of some names. If anyone is able to read it, is there relevant data there?

- Atti di Matrimonio

- Publicazioni di Matrimonio

thanks!
AngelaGrace56
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Re: Help with handwriting of the publicazioni di matromonio of my great-great-great grandfathers

Post by AngelaGrace56 »

Hi, welcome to the forum.

Yes, Antonino was 63 years old. He was a villico... (farmer).
I believe his wife's name was Anna Miano, she was a deceased industriosa (manufacturer/trader)

Re the handwriting at the base of the Pubblication:
It indicates that Alberto Trovato and Rosa Trovato, the parents of the bride, also appeared and took part, and that they gave their consent for the marriage to take place.

The last paragraph indicates that the present Act was read to those present, who all signed the Act (Record), except for the prospective bride and groom, and the parents of the bride who were all illiterate.


.... In case you are interested: re occupation Villico and other farmers: https://www.italiangenealogy.com/forum/ ... co#p227490

Angela
barbeta
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Re: Help with handwriting of the publicazioni di matromonio of my great-great-great grandfathers

Post by barbeta »

Thanks Angela!

Regarding Anna Miano: how do you know that she was deceased by that time? is because of the highlighted word on the attachment?
Capture.JPG
Capture.JPG (14.31 KiB) Viewed 1266 times
What does it say in italian? (I'm also checking other documents from other part of the family and they have the same)

and also thanks for the link to the professions! it's very useful!
darkerhorse
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Re: Help with handwriting of the publicazioni di matromonio of my great-great-great grandfathers

Post by darkerhorse »

Yes, "fu" or "fui" means "was" and is a polite way of saying deceased. Latin, I think. Sum, esse, fui, futurus, as I recall.
barbeta
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Re: Help with handwriting of the publicazioni di matromonio of my great-great-great grandfathers

Post by barbeta »

darkerhorse wrote: 17 Jul 2021, 21:29 Yes, "fu" or "fui" means "was" and is a polite way of saying deceased. Latin, I think. Sum, esse, fui, futurus, as I recall.
thanks! Now lots of things makes more sense!

While we're on the same topic on how they registered deceased people on the records: what does it mean when an age is registered to that deceased person?
Is the age they had at the moment of death?
Or is the age they would have if they lived at the moment of writing the record? (Ex: I have some marriage records where some of the fathers are deceased, but they have an age next to it)

thanks!
darkerhorse
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Re: Help with handwriting of the publicazioni di matromonio of my great-great-great grandfathers

Post by darkerhorse »

It's age at death.

I'd be careful trusting reported ages on these records - for both living and deceased persons, I think there was reporting error, depending upon how accurate the informant was. It could be just an educated guess. There also tends to be some rounding of ages when unsure, like ending in 0 or 5.

Best to cross-check ages on several records to get an implied year of birth.
-
They also used "quondam" or "quond." meaning "former" as a synonym for deceased.
AngelaGrace56
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Re: Help with handwriting of the publicazioni di matromonio of my great-great-great grandfathers

Post by AngelaGrace56 »

barbeta wrote: 17 Jul 2021, 19:28 Thanks Angela!

Regarding Anna Miano: how do you know that she was deceased by that time? is because of the highlighted word on the attachment?

Capture.JPG

What does it say in italian? (I'm also checking other documents from other part of the family and they have the same)

and also thanks for the link to the professions! it's very useful!

You’re very welcome for the help.

That little word is “fu” literally means “was” When it is written immediately before someone’s name indicates that the person is deceased. You may also see the word “furono” before the name of a married couple or several unrelated people. “Furono” literally means “were” which would indicate that both husband and wife were deceased etc

Fu = was (singular) furono = were (plural)

The Latin word “quondam” just means “formerly” or “at one time”, so it can be used to indicate singular or plural depending on what comes before it, or what other info is given. If it says, for example, “delli quondam” then it would be referring to both parents being deceased. See here for an explanation of the abbreviations of the word quondam which do indicate singular and/or plural:
https://www.italiangenealogy.com/forum/ ... am#p314305


barbeta wrote: 17 Jul 2021, 21:58 [While we're on the same topic on how they registered deceased people on the records: what does it mean when an age is registered to that deceased person?
Is the age they had at the moment of death?
Or is the age they would have if they lived at the moment of writing the record? (Ex: I have some marriage records where some of the fathers are deceased, but they have an age next to it)

thanks!

On the marriage records that you have which include the age of a deceased parent, yes, that was the age that said parent was when they died. The information probably would've been extracted from the parent's death record which would've been included amongst the marriage attachments (allegati). Always remember that information on death records are not always completely accurate for obvious reasons.

If you have any records that show words that you are not familiar with, you can always post them here, and we can look at them for you.

Angela
barbeta
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Re: Help with handwriting of the publicazioni di matromonio of my great-great-great grandfathers

Post by barbeta »

AngelaGrace56 wrote: 18 Jul 2021, 04:40 On the marriage records that you have which include the age of a deceased parent, yes, that was the age that said parent was when they died. The information probably would've been extracted from the parent's death record which would've been included amongst the marriage attachments (allegati). Always remember that information on death records are not always completely accurate for obvious reasons.

Thanks Angela for the details!
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