Help with Latin ???

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stfrancis
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Help with Latin ???

Post by stfrancis » 23 May 2019, 19:57

This is the church death record for Angelo Balsamo, but I'm not sure what it says ! :lol: :o
I would greatly appreciate anyone's help in making sense out of it. Thank you.
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1.jpg

erudita74
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Re: Help with Latin ???

Post by erudita74 » 23 May 2019, 20:30

Angelo Balsamo was about age 70 when he died on Dec 6, 1788. He was the husband of Rosa Riccardo and died in the home of someone else, not his own home. Burial was the following day.

Erudita

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Re: Help with Latin ???

Post by stfrancis » 23 May 2019, 20:49

Erudita,

Excellent thank you. Does the rest mean anything, where it starts CSMR etc...?

So no parents named, I assume is typical for the early records. I am having them search his marriage, or birth in hope of his parents names...

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Re: Help with Latin ???

Post by erudita74 » 23 May 2019, 21:39

Unfortunately, his parents' names do not appear in the record.

The abbreviation C.S. M.E. is for Communione Sanctae Matris Ecclesiae. I believe it means "in union with the holy Mother Church."

What town is this record from? Burial was in the Congregation of the Immaculate Virgin, but I don't know what specific location this refers to, so knowing the town name might help.

Erudita

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Re: Help with Latin ???

Post by stfrancis » 23 May 2019, 23:06

Looks like none of the other records on that page show the parents names either.

It is from the parish of Santa Maria D'Ajello, commune of Afragola. I believe the parish dates back to the 11th century.

Perhaps if they are willing, now that we have an approx birth date, 1718, they can locate Angelo's birth record....

I started off by asking if they could locate his marriage to Riccardo, and so far they are unable. They focused on pre 1761, which is when a son, Michele, was born (the only one I know of for sure)

For what it's worth, the Italian names distribution map shows most Riccardo's in Giugliano, and Napoli, and in the Puglia region. (It is relatively rare, especially compared to the name Riccardi).

They have offered to search her death record, if I want.


If you think of anything please let me know, I appreciate your wisdom!


Thank you

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Re: Help with Latin ???

Post by erudita74 » 24 May 2019, 12:26

Even though the parish dates back to the 11th century, there probably aren't records there before the mid 1500s, when the Council of Trent dictated to the parishes that they had to keep records of the vital events in their parishes. The format and content of those records, however, were left up to the discretion of the individual priests, which is why they vary so much, not just from parish to parish, but even within an individual parish. But, even if this parish did keep records or registers prior to the early 1700s, which you now need, with the lack of names in these records, it's difficult to be certain that a record is for your ancestor and trace the ancestry further back in time. Sometimes there are just too many individuals with the same first and last names in the same time period.

It's unfortunate that the records are not available online, as I know it's costly to have someone at the parish research the old books for you. No parish will do it for free. Sometimes, due to the shortage of priests, an individual priest even administers to multiple parishes and has no time to dig out his old books, which are probably falling apart, to do research for an inquirer.

As to the marriage record, you say that, so far, the parish has been unable to locate it. The reason may be that the bride was born in another town and, if so, then the marriage, more than likely, would have taken place in her town of birth. So the situation for you is, unfortunately, complex.

Hopefully the parish will, at least, locate the baptism record for Angelo and maybe you will get lucky and get his parents' names on it. But, don't be surprised if the record only contains the name of the father. That doesn't mean the mother was unknown. New mothers had a purification period, did not leave their homes, and normally were not present at the baptism, which may be the reason their names are sometimes not given in those records.

Good luck!

Erudita

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Re: Help with Latin ???

Post by stfrancis » 24 May 2019, 15:08

Thank you, very informative.

I knew this was going to become a brick wall, and even 1600's would be AMAZING.

I still have a couple of ideas in mind, and I am quite persistent, for the rest, as you know, sometimes it just takes getting lucky once! :lol:

Regarding the marriage, I agree about another town, now that is a nice challenge for sure ! :(

Interesting about the mother's names, I have 2 other Balsamo's which I have feeling are the other children of Angelo's, and in one case the father is named as Angelo, but mother "ignota". So I see your point.

I always had in mind BIG families, but so far, in my line, I'm noticing only a couple or few viable offspring, especially in the early generations. However still too many to follow. For example from 1820 to 1830, I noted about 10 Balsamo deaths per year...

So do you also agree, that within the SAME family, some siblings' baptisms would show a mother's name, and the other siblings not ?

Regards.

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Re: Help with Latin ???

Post by stfrancis » 26 May 2019, 19:22

Can anyone interpret the last line where it says he dies in his home......
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MicheleBalsamo,Death1813(Parents,Angelo,Rosa Riccardo).jpg

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Re: Help with Latin ???

Post by erudita74 » 27 May 2019, 01:10

This is a difficult read, so I looked through the records online at family search, and a lot of the death records have almost the same wording. I am certain about the word rimasto. I think it says he died in his own home that his wife remained the overseer of. This is just a wild guess based on reading the other records in this group. Maybe someone else can give you a more accurate reading.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cat=974488

Erudita

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Re: Help with Latin ???

Post by stfrancis » 27 May 2019, 02:17

Thank you Erudita, doesn't sound like anything too important, just wanted to make sure :wink: .

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Re: Help with Latin ???

Post by AngelaGrace56 » 27 May 2019, 02:23

erudita74 wrote:
27 May 2019, 01:10
This is a difficult read, so I looked through the records online at family search, and a lot of the death records have almost the same wording. I am certain about the word rimasto. I think it says he died in his own home that his wife remained the overseer of. This is just a wild guess based on reading the other records in this group. Maybe someone else can give you a more accurate reading.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cat=974488

Erudita
Erudita,

I'm also certain of the word "rimasto" and I also see the word "superstite". I believe it reads:

"He died in his own house.

Then it says something like:

"He left behind his wife, who survived him" so, in other words, "He was survived by his wife."

I don't think it has anything to do with the wife being an overseer of the house.

Angela

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Re: Help with Latin ???

Post by stfrancis » 27 May 2019, 03:32

Thank you Angela, the timeline would also fit, since his wife died in 1827.

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Re: Help with Latin ???

Post by erudita74 » 27 May 2019, 05:00

Good job, Angela. That word had been baffled.
Erudita

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Re: Help with Latin ???

Post by AngelaGrace56 » 27 May 2019, 05:44

stfrancis wrote:
27 May 2019, 03:32
Thank you Angela, the timeline would also fit, since his wife died in 1827.
You are very welcome. Glad the timeline fits.

Angela :)

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Re: Help with Latin ???

Post by AngelaGrace56 » 27 May 2019, 05:47

erudita74 wrote:
27 May 2019, 05:00
Good job, Angela. That word had been baffled.
Erudita
Thank you, Erudita! Glad I could help.

Angela :)

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