Denmark and Germany

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darkerhorse
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Re: Denmark and Germany

Post by darkerhorse »

I've been searching Denmark and Norway so far, and I appreciate the Germany references.

A confounding issue is that genealogy errors get proliferated online with all the linking of family trees, etc. We have an example in our family where a photo of the son was misidentified as the father, and now there are many family trees online which grabbed that misidentified photo. And you cant unring the bell.

Growing up we were told that family line was Norwegian. I've documented traces of Danish and German, but this new possibility would be dramatic because it's the surname. We've already discovered that the surname was Danish and not Norwegian. Now, it might be German, and not Danish. The circumstantial evidence is strong.

I don't mind saying I'm not wild about more German ancestry having thought those relatives were pure Norwegians.

I suppose Y DNA would help clear things up. I do have male 1st cousins with that surname who haven't been DNA tested yet. I wonder what the haplogroup is?



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MarcuccioV
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Re: Denmark and Germany

Post by MarcuccioV »

darkerhorse wrote: 17 Apr 2021, 22:50 I've been searching Denmark and Norway so far, and I appreciate the Germany references.

A confounding issue is that genealogy errors get proliferated online with all the linking of family trees, etc. We have an example in our family where a photo of the son was misidentified as the father, and now there are many family trees online which grabbed that misidentified photo. And you cant unring the bell.

Growing up we were told that family line was Norwegian. I've documented traces of Danish and German, but this new possibility would be dramatic because it's the surname. We've already discovered that the surname was Danish and not Norwegian. Now, it might be German, and not Danish. The circumstantial evidence is strong.

I don't mind saying I'm not wild about more German ancestry having thought those relatives were pure Norwegians.

I suppose Y DNA would help clear things up. I do have male 1st cousins with that surname who haven't been DNA tested yet. I wonder what the haplogroup is?



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Y-DNA will only help if it's a direct paternal line. Haplogroups to some extent are no help, if it's common (my mtDNA haplogroup is extremely rare which is why I was researching it; I STILL haven't found any matches).

Based on the evidence you present, I'd have to say the roots are German, then married into Danish. Whether or not Norwegians mixed in remains to be seen. I have a couple of random Norwegians on my dad's side, but too isolated & too far back to come up through DNA.

My wife & I are related through 13 GG's (in England). Too distant for any DNA matching, but paper trails confirm the connection. Because of the randomness of DNA replication, NONE of you may show ANY northern European ethnicity at all. Especially that far back.

As for your misinformation example, I've encountered similar dozens of times during my tree-building. From parents with the same birth years as their children to wives having their husband's parents listed as theirs, yet NO parents for the husband (why..?). Even non-matching names & birthplaces (I had THAT on the Morris fiasco that still isn't sorted out). Once or twice I had famous (or semi-famous) people listed as parents to people in my tree that were nothing but starry-eyed speculation that a little research quickly disproved.

So I get the frustration... oh, and yes, I get around, LOL... :wink:
Mark

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Re: Denmark and Germany

Post by afecad »

darkerhorse wrote: 17 Apr 2021, 22:50
I suppose Y DNA would help clear things up. I do have male 1st cousins with that surname who haven't been DNA tested yet. I wonder what the haplogroup is?

Whether or not it will is hard to say? You have to do at least a 67 marker Y-DNA test to get good results, I would go farther for even better results, 111 is what FTDNA goes up. With that, someone who is of the same surname, would be able to trace back fathers>father>father and so on. There are potential issues, say there was a surname change or adoption along the line, that will yield you different results. Confirmed haplogroup is another bonus, while 23andme does test Y-DNA, it only gives you a predicted haplogroup, FTDNA will give you confirmed which goes down deep in the subclades and shows matches who have the same.

As I noted prior, without a solid paper trail, Y-DNA will not solve all your problems...
darkerhorse
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Re: Denmark and Germany

Post by darkerhorse »

The great-grandson of Johan Gottlieb Bohme, named Johan Frederich Bohm, changed his name to John F. Bohm after immigrating to America c.1879.

The attached page is from a book on early Norwegians in NYC. Note the spelling is the o with a slash.

It's possible that the original spelling was German, with the dots, and evolved into Norwegian, with the slash, sometime after they had moved to Norway from Denmark.
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MarcuccioV
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Re: Denmark and Germany

Post by MarcuccioV »

Did you see this..? The "oe" is often used in place of the umlauted ö...

https://www.houseofnames.com/boehme-fam ... %20society.
Mark

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darkerhorse
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Re: Denmark and Germany

Post by darkerhorse »

I don't know if I had seen this particular website before but I was familiar with some of the content.
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MarcuccioV
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Re: Denmark and Germany

Post by MarcuccioV »

darkerhorse wrote: 19 Apr 2021, 02:42 I don't know if I had seen this particular website before but I was familiar with some of the content.
Okay. The ø is just the Scandinavian version of ö...
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darkerhorse
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Re: Denmark and Germany

Post by darkerhorse »

The person born in Henober, Germany was Johan Henrik David Carstens, sometimes transcribed as Carstensen which suggests Scandinavian origin. Moreover, he married a woman in Norway and gave his children (at least the males) the surname Johansen, again suggesting Scandinavian origin.

I've attached his baptism record, number 30, noting his father, Peter. I've also attached his death record. I believe he was born in Henober, Germany and died in Oslo, Norway. His daughter was born in Norway, and married into the Bohm family there.

Can you tell if Carstens or Carstensen is written? Any other clues about his ethnicity in the records?
Baptism.jpg
Kb20061006010150.jpg
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MarcuccioV
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Re: Denmark and Germany

Post by MarcuccioV »

Looks like Carstens to me. Carstensen would be a Scandinavian form. Germans rarely "cut" or "added" to names. If anything they just modified spellings somewhat to fit their alphabet.
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darkerhorse
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Re: Denmark and Germany

Post by darkerhorse »

Maybe it was changed in Norway.
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MarcuccioV
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Re: Denmark and Germany

Post by MarcuccioV »

It's also obviously an earlier German form. Later it would have been spelled "Karstens".
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