Giovanna Antonia Ramponi, from Gottro di Carlazzo (Como)

fxramponi12 · Post by **fxramponi12** » 31 Dec 2009, 18:12

I have run into a very unusual situation in my family and wonder if anyone can help me understand just what happened here.

My grandmother was Giovanna Antonia Ramponi, born in Gottro di Carlazzo â€“ Como â€“ Italy. Her birthday was Aug. 20, 1905.

I was recently sent a copy of her birth record and received quite a surprise when I saw that her original name on the birth certificate was â€œGiovanna Antonio Mirto.â€

PeterTimber · Post by **PeterTimber** » 31 Dec 2009, 18:43

Your biological father is MIRTO (mariola is heresay). In Italy only children take on the biological father's surname. When you say she was adopted did you mean informally or formally by John Ramponi. Are there adoption papers or did he just "adopt you" by oral acceptance when he married her mother? =Peter=

fxramponi12 · Post by **fxramponi12** » 31 Dec 2009, 20:15

Peter, Thank you for writing back. It seems I haven't explained sufficiently. Sorry about that, let me try again and see what happens.

On the original birth certificate, it lists my grandmother as "Giovanna Antonia Mirto" - of unknown parents (no father or mother is listed) - it only says the mother declined to be named and there is absolutely no mention of the father.

Then, a few months later, there is a notation on the birth certificate that the mother - Rachele Bassi - reclaimed my grandmother as her natural daughter.

The following year, Rachele marries Giovanni Ramponi. Giovanni raises my grandmother as his own daughter, she takes his surname and is known as "Giovanni Antonia Ramponi" henceforth. I don't think it was a formal thing, I've never seen adoption papers or anything. I think he just sort of said, ok this is my daughter. He was a loving man and I believe wanted to restore some honor to my great-grandmother's situation.

"Mirto" seems to be a made-up name - it seems to have nothing to do with my grandmother's father or her mother.

After sending my original post earlier today, I read a few other posts on this site that say illegitimate babies in Italy were given made-up surnames sometimes, so I'm thinking this is probably what happened with my grandmother? I've never heard of this before, can anyone confirm it is true?

As for Mariola being "heresay," I don't know much more about it, except that my grandmother's mother always told her that her natural father was a man from Gottro named Carlo Mariola. My grandmother also talked about some (half) siblings (Mariola) she had from her natural father - there was a Santina, Carlo, Piero. She seemed to know the family anyway, but didn't like to talk about it because I think she was a embarrassed and always just considered Ramponi to be her father.

Mirto is a mystery, I was hoping someone on board had some experience with this made-up surnames.

This sounds terribly confusing, I'm just curious about Mirto, what was the significance of this name? Why wasn't my grandmother just given her mother's surname when she was born?

MaurizioPerrone · Post by **MaurizioPerrone** » 31 Dec 2009, 20:45

Your grandmother was a trovatella, an illegitimate baby girl. Mirto was the name given to her by the officers of the town of Gottro (fantasy name), there was great pressure on the mother to give the baby to the orphanage. It was common, not unusual situation. the mother of your grandmother was probably young girl and her family wants her to give the baby to orphanage to preserve the honor of the family. Then, she changes her mind and goes back to the orphanage to take her baby.

The natural father Mariola Carlo is not listed on the birth act because he is a married man, he will not recognize the child as his own, because this would be a big disgrace. Only by official act of recognition can your grandmother use the surname of her natural father. I believe Ramponi perhaps recognized your grandmother as his daughter when he married the mother, so she can use his surname. Quite a noble deed!

In little villages and big towns in Italy, these illegitimate babies were common occurance. Every story is different.

PeterTimber · Post by **PeterTimber** » 31 Dec 2009, 23:40

The use of the word hearsay is a legal phrase to reflect that there is no legal proof or evidence to support a statement that her surname was MARIOLA. It is not meant to degrade anyone nor to negate the possiblity that her name may indeed be MARIOLA. Its just that no court of law can accept verbal evidence without any supporting documents or other evidence. =Peter=

Michael31 · Post by **Michael31** » 01 Jan 2010, 05:13

www.paginebianche.it
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Via Vivaldi Antonio, 10
tel:031 732948

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tel:031 264222

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cognome: MARIOLA dove: Gottro

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22063 Vighizzolo CO
22100 Como CO

http://www.comune.porlezza.co.it/
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http://digilander.libero.it/gottro/index.html
http://www.comune.carlazzo.co.it/portal ... l/carlazzo
http://www.comune.como.it/como/eng/
www.comune.cantu.co.it (Vighizzolo)
http://www.vivicantu.com/

Giovanna Antonia Ramponi, from Gottro di Carlazzo (Como)

Giovanna Antonia Ramponi, from Gottro di Carlazzo (Como)

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Re: Giovanna Antonia Ramponi, from Gottro di Carlazzo (Como)

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