Derosa, Marinella Naples/Maddaloni

[wyovino]

Hi,

I'm back with questions about my great grandparents on my father's mother's side and questions about the best way to find the information myself.

Gennaro DeRosa - GGF
Adelaide Marinella - GGM
Luigi Quagliano - (Son of Adelaide, stepson of Gennaro)
Enrichetta - daughter and my GM
Edwardo - son
Alberto - son
Francis - son
Giovanna - daughter


I found Ellis Island manifests from April 6, 1899 and May 28, 1900. On both manifests, it shows Napoli as the last place of residence. I checked the Castle Garden database and found info from the 1899 voyage, but it shows "Maddalon" as the last place of residence.

1. Do you know why there would be a difference? Does the Castle Garden archive have information that Ellis Island doesn't?

2. I looked in the local phone directory of Maddaloni. I found a DeRosa, a Marinella, and a Quagliano. Is this a good indication that the town is correct, or are these names sufficiently common that it could be a coincidence?

3. I have an account on Ancestry.com that I activate from time to time. I found some material initially, but have hit dead ends ever since. I haven't upgraded to the Int'l access because the last time I checked they didn't have any records from Italy. Is there value in upgrading?

Thanks in advance. I love this site!

Regards,

Bill

[wyovino]

Bump.

Can anyone answer any of the questions, especially #3 - Is it worth upgrading to the Ancestry.com Int'l membership, given that they don't have Italian records?

Bill

[johnnyonthespot]

#1) In theory, the CastleGarden site has only manifests for ships/persons who entered through the that center until 1892 when it was closed for such use. After that date, all New York passengers entered through Ellis Island, records of which can be found at the EllisIsland.org site.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_Garden
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ellis_island

I always feel the need to point out that massive numbers of our Italian ancestors entered through several other ports (Boston, Philadelphia, and New Orleans come to mind) and that the two previously mentioned sites have no records at all for these ports.

#2) This site ( http://www.gens.labo.net/en/cognomi/genera.html ) will give you a good idea as to the distribution of a name in Italy. Just put a name in the Cognome box and click the arrow.

#3) I don't have an international account at ancestry . com either. My impression so far is that it would not help my personal research and I am not up to taking donations to support the free time I spend here.

[johnnyonthespot]

Looking at the manifests on ancestry . com:

The 1899 manifest has all the parties lined out. I am sure you know that that means they did not actually sail on the ship.

The May 28, 1900 manifest clearly shows the De Rosa'a (who are at the very top of the sheet) Last Residence = Napoli. As I scroll down through the sheet, passenger's Last Residence varies as you might expect. The last two at the bottom of the sheet (Felice Fusco and Paolo Papaolo) are listed as coming from Maddaloni.

It seems to me that the CastleGarden index you referred to is screwed up.

[wyovino]

Johnny,

Thanks. I didn't know about the lined out names and I'm a bit confused. Why would they be listed on the arrival manifest if they weren't on the ship? How would they get the details about who they were going to stay with and how much money they had?

The 1899 manifest shows them sailing with their two older sons Luigi and Frances (and other children). The 1900 manifest doesn't list those two and shows that the family was going to stay with their two sons. Could this mean that the family was sent back due to illness or other reason and that the two older boys were allowed to stay?

You have a wealth of information and we're lucky that you're willing to share it.

As always - thanks so much.

Bill

[wyovino]

Is there somewhere I can find out what the crossed out lines mean? I haven't found anything on the Ellis Island site yet.


This is so frustrating. I now know less about them than I did 3 years ago.

[vj]

This may help

under the header "Not Shipped," N.O.B., or "Did Not Sail"
http://www.jewishgen.org/infofiles/manifests/left/

here's the entire article
http://www.jewishgen.org/infofiles/manifests/

[johnnyonthespot]

The "Arrival Manifest" was filled out in advance, sort of like a reservation book.

People called or visited the line's passenger office and said, "I want to sail to America the first week of July, what have you got?" and they then reserved space on a particular ship.

When they actually boarded the ship days or weeks later, they were ticked off against the already prepared manifest. If they did not show up by the time the ship sailed (or called in advance to cancel their reservation) then they were lined out.

[PeterTimber]

Carmine sometimes passengers arrived at Ellis Island and were not admitted into the USA by US Immigration and deatined/deported or later admitted but the manifest would again be lined out by the Ships Agents or by US Iimmigration Officers comparing documents against the ship manifest. I do believe that there was a marginal coding for ellisisland detention.

Often when an alien cleared up his immigration problem and was later re-admitted from Ellis island the persons name should/ would be ADDED to the next incoming ship's manifest AFTER they were admitted for permanent residence. I have personally seen an instance of this happening several years ago when someone inquired as to why the ship documents in possession of the family did not reflect what the alien told the family about the name of the ship he arrived on at Ellis Island. =Peter=

[wyovino]

Great stuff!

Very odd that they would fill out an arrival manifest based on a reservation, but that explains a lot.

I checked out the manifest again and went to the next page. There is an affidavit by the ship's surgeon that he personally checked everyone on the list and that no one was an "idiot" or "insane". The number of passengers is shown as 22, which is correct if you subtract the 8 members of my family from the 30 lines on the list. I hope they weren't rejected because of the "Idiot" restriction - although that may explain why I'm having so much trouble with this

So the two sons who were listed on the crossed-out manifest must have sailed sometime after that but before the rest of the family sailed a year later. I haven't found that manifest yet but I'll keep searching.

The Stephen Morse website is really a good tool.

Thanks again,

Bill

[oilman19]

Hey Bill.

Great sense of humor. We need that sometimes.

Jim

[vj]

...
I found Ellis Island manifests from April 6, 1899 and May 28, 1900. On both manifests, it shows Napoli as the last place of residence. I checked the Castle Garden database and found info from the 1899 voyage, but it shows "Maddalon" as the last place of residence.

1. Do you know why there would be a difference? Does the Castle Garden archive have information that Ellis Island doesn't?
...

Hi Bill!

On Castle Garden you're looking at a different manifest in 1899.
The 'Maddalon' manifest is for the SS Sempione arriving on 26 Jun 1899.
Not sure if it's your Gennaro DeRosa, he's traveling alone to a cousin DeRosa
http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/979/189901.jpg

Yes, the Castle Garden site has different transcribers than Ellis Island and ancestry. com
Sometimes it helps to check all three

Valarie

just for everyone's reference, the Apr 1899 lined-off manifest

6 Apr 1899, SS Spartan Prince, Naples to NY
http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/8107/1899d.jpg
lines 4-11
lined-off did not sail
Gennaro DeRosa 36, abt 1836
- joining sister, brother-in-law at 240 Elizabeth St
wife Adelaide Marinella 42, abt 1857
son Francesco 11, abt 1888
son Alberto 9, abt 1890
daughter Giovanna 6, abt 1893
son Eduardo 4, abt 1895
daughter Enrichetta 8 mos, abt 1898
step-son Luigi Quagliano 12, abt 1887

and 1900 manifest
joining sons at 240 Elizabeth Street
http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/3425/1900p.jpg
---

... questions about the best way to find the information myself...

Free search sites:

neat search site for NY ship manifests, census records, WWII draft registration cards and more
http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsea ... html#start

and, if you haven’t used these, they may help you locate New York City records:

Dr Steve Morse One Step Search Pages for New York:

NY Naturalization
NYC Birth Records 1901-1907
NYC Birth Records 1891-1902 (requires ancestry. com subscription)
NYC Groom Index 1864-1936
NYC Bride Index ????-1937
NYC Death Records 1891-1948

Ordering NYC Vital Records
New York City Archives

from NYC records by the Italian Genealogical Group
http://www.italiangen.org/

[wyovino]

VJ,

Thanks. Upon examination of the document you attached, the Castle Garden manifest is most likely another Gennaro DeRosa. I've been searching through the StephenMorse site but haven't found anything new yet.

What I have so far is that the whole family registered but did not sail on the Apr 1899 voyage.

In May, 1900, the family, minus two sons, arrived in New York to stay with their two sons. So son Francesco DeRosa and stepson Luigi Quaglinolo (my father always thought it was Quagliano) must have made the voyage sometime between April 1899 and May 1900.

The whole family shows up in the 1900 Federal Census, which is lucky because they had only been in the country for a few weeks.

Regards,

Bill

[vj]

Thank you for the update Bill
Let us know if you want us to help search for the sons' manifest
Valarie