24 days to go, on my last step, last couple of questions

[beauac]

The last thing I need to do before my meeting is the apostille thing and then the translations into Italian. This is where I am quite confused and your help here could insure that I make my deadline. I have the address in CT where things get an apostille. Do I just mail it all to them? What needs to have an apostille exactly? Do the Nyc records I have need to go to an ny apostille place? All I have from Nyc are a marriage cert for the first one from Italy, his death cert, naturalization and then a no records found for his sons birth. Does any of that need apostille?

Also where do I send all of this stuff for an Italian translation and which should come first? Do they make a new document in italian or what? Does the new document need an apostille?

Sorry for bombarding you all with questions but I really was confused about this stuff.

User ricbru alerted me today that he located my ancestors records from Italy. After only a couple days. Miraculous, I thought this would never come in time!

[mler]

For Connecticut, I simply mailed the certified document with the appropriate fee and a stamped self-addressed envelope. It was returned to me very quickly.

NYC documents require a two-step process. They first need to be notarized at the county courthouse of the borough in which they were issued (in Manhattan, this is located on Centre Street). Once the notarization is obtained they can be presented for an apostille (on Williams Street).

I walked my NYC documents through the process (Centre Street is within walking distance of the state offices on Williams), but it can be done by mail in a two-step process. Given your time constraints, you may want to walk them through. Naturalization documents do not require an apostille; I don't know about "no records found" documents, but it's not costly ($3 for the notarization/$10 for the apostille) so you may want to get one just in case.

If you are sending out documents for translation, simply make a copy of the documents and send the translator the copies. In this way, both the translation and apostille process can be done at the same time. You can also translate your own documents. Samples of translated documents are posted in the "template" section of the www.italiancitization.freeforums.org forum.

[johnnyonthespot]

Apostilles are issued by the state in which the document originated. Your Connecticut documents need to go to the Connecticut Secretary of State ( http://www.ct.gov/dph/cwp/view.asp?a=3132&q=395696 ), your NY and NYC documents go to the New York Secretary of State ( http://www.dos.state.ny.us/corps/apostille.html ), and so on.

I am pleased to see that New York is still charging only $10 per apostille. Connecticut - those thieving b*st*rds - are now charging a whopping $40 each! Twice what it was two years ago.

Anyway, all non-Italian documents need apostilles except US naturalization docs. So, basically, all US issued birth, marriage, divorce, and death certificates.

Translations can be tricky. It seems the New York "help" line is telling people that all non-Italian documents need translations; I believe this to be totally wrong. When I applied in NYC in mid-2008, the only documents which required translations were my birth certificate, my marriage license, and my wife's birth certificate.

Most translators will create a document which looks like the original but with Italian nomenclature. NYC does not require certified translations (except, I believe for divorce decrees), so do not pay extra for this service. You can even do your own translations if you are inclined to take the time to do them correctly. Otherwise, there are many widely-known people who can do the work for you at reasonable cost. One person I have used and have seen very positive reviews of is Gabriella Einaga ( gabriella_einaga@att.net - remove the spaces). Your best choice is to scan the originals and send them by email to your translator.

[beauac]

Thanks a million. Thats really helpful. I may make it yet. So do I understand this correctly? I can walk in and do the NY apostilles the same day after I do the notarization? Thank god I am currently unemployed otherwise all this would never be completed at the speed I am doing. This is really my current full time job!

[johnnyonthespot]

Thank god I am currently unemployed otherwise all this would never be completed at the speed I am doing. This is really my current full time job!

Hey, me too!

[beauac]

You guys are very helpful! Carmine, if I do not present divorce decrees, even if I know they were divorced will this harm me. Will they ask? Really why would they want my parents divorce certificate, its just one more doc I need to pay for and translate, etc..

[johnnyonthespot]

In all states that I know of, marriage licenses indicate the "number" of the marriage for each spouse - 1st, 2nd, etc.

If you present a license which indicates anything other than 1st for each spouse, the consulate is going to want to see the earlier marriage license and divorce decree.

On the other hand, if for example your parents divorced long after you were born and both are now deceased, then there is no particular reason to even mention the divorce let alone provide the documents.

[mler]

I am pleased to see that New York is still charging only $10 per apostille. Connecticut - those thieving b*st*rds - are now charging a whopping $40 each! Twice what it was two years ago.

Uh oh! Sorry, Carmine. My information may be out of date. It's been a while.

[beauac]

In all states that I know of, marriage licenses indicate the "number" of the marriage for each spouse - 1st, 2nd, etc.

If you present a license which indicates anything other than 1st for each spouse, the consulate is going to want to see the earlier marriage license and divorce decree.

On the other hand, if for example your parents divorced long after you were born and both are now deceased, then there is no particular reason to even mention the divorce let alone provide the documents.

The only marriage record I have that might be a problem is my parents. It says first marriage for my father and second for my mother. Do I really need to get her first marriage papers and divorce papers? Why would they care what she did before she met my father?

[johnnyonthespot]

Since your mother is not in the direct-line, I wouldn't worry about it unless and until the consular official tells you she requires them.

>> Why would they care what she did before she met my father?

Most likely to ensure that the current marriage was legal; I can't think of any other reason.

[beauac]

Ok thanks alot. At this point I can only present what I have and hope for the best. I now have all the docs for the men as well as their marriages but there are just so many unfixable tiny discrepancies and technicalities and what not. Anyone with sense can see its my line but I hope they dont look for little errors and what not as a way to reject people who should otherwise get it and limit the amount of people they have to accept as citizens.

[jennabet]

Carmine, you are presenting invaluable information here for me to use. Yes, I am already recognized but my boyfriend's case is different than mine.

Question #1. He is a widower. His wife passed away 2-1/2 years ago. He does have children but they are both in their 30's. Will he need to present his wife's death certificate?

Question #2. I don't mean to sound like a broken record, but it seems almost certain now that his grand-father did not take the oath due to death 10 months after petition was filed. City Hall at Niagara Falls says that he, himself can ask for his grand-father's death certificate for GENEOLOGY purposes only. If he wants it with an Apostile and his mother doesn't apply for it, he will need a court order to get it.

Since the grand-father was born in 1894 and died in 1925, I think the apostile will not be needed; we only want to show that the grand-father never naturalized because he died. What do you think about this? Should he get the uncertified document or should his mother apply for the apostiled version?

Question #3, since his mother is the direct ascendent, how do we co-ordinate this? She is 85 and lives in Arizona. We live about 900 miles away and will have to use either San Francisco consulate or a vice consulate closer to us.

Grazie tanto.

[mler]

jennabet, since your grandfather is in the direct line, it seems advisable to get the apostilled death certificate. If his mother faxes him an ID, he can order the document for her. I'm not sure about the west coast consulates, but NY and Newark required death certificates for those in the direct line. Also since you want the death certificate as supporting evidence of non-naturalization, you would want to ensure that they accept its validity.

Since his wife is not in the direct line, even if his children also apply (or choose to apply at some later date) it is unlikely they will need the death certificate. Of course, if you and he decide to get married, the death certificate will be necessary.

Is his mom applying? If not, simply have her complete the "Declaration of Living Ascendent" and have her signature notarized. That's the way my dad and I handled it for his bc.

What consulate will you be using? Not all Vice Consulates handle citizenship claims.

[jennabet]

Thanks Mler. Good info. Where do I get a copy of the Declaration of Living Ascendant? What do you mean about his mother faxing him an ID? I'm not familiar with this. Can he also apply for certified Death Certificate if he's faxed her ID?

[johnnyonthespot]

The New York consulate uses two forms for Declaration of Living Ascendant and Declaration of Deceased Ascendant. They are Form3 and For4 at the bottom of this page: http://www.consnewyork.esteri.it/NR/exe ... =Published

New York is extremely difficult when it comes to getting certified copies of birth and death certificates. I can understand the former but the latter makes no sense to me.

Anyway, if you use a service such as VitalChek to order the death certificate in his mother's name, you will be required to fax a copy of his mother's photo (?) ID to VitalChek's office. Once you do that, they will most likely refuse to send the certificate to any address other than the one on the ID. So, you should just plan to order it in his mother's name and shipping address and then advise his mother to forward it to you immediately upon receipt. It might be a good idea to send her an addressed and postage-paid large envelope (I would use Priority Mail with Tracking) to his mother in advance so that all she nneds do is put the certificate in and seal the envelope.

I concur with mler's other comments.