Ship Passenger-Tucciariello or Pecciarello

[Eleven]

This morning, I read here, that Family search had the 1905 New York state census, so I went to look for my great grandfather. Why is it, when we find something, it leads to further confusion..or frustration...lol

It lists my great grandfather, Francesco DiBattista as the head of household.

Then his wife, Santa rosa (her maiden name is Tucciariello).

It lists my grandfather, antonio.

Then it lists the mystery man Michele "Pecciarello" as brother.

We all know, that relatives on the census, are how they are related to the head of household. If it said mother..it is mother of the head of household, sister, would be sister to the head of household.

I have a feeling, that it lists brother, but its HER brother and the surname is Tucciariello and NOT Pecciarello. I have seen similar mistakes with this surname.

Anyway..they are all from Rionero in Vulture and for 6 hours today, I tried to find a ship passenger record for Michele Tucciariello or Pecciarello and came up with nothing. On the census it says he is, 23, here 4 years and he is a barber.

Does anyone want to take a stab at this? You guys seem to work miracles here.

[johnnyonthespot]

Pecciarello does not appear in the current Italian telephone listings, a god sign of a corrupt spelling. http://www.paginebianche.it/execute.cgi ... o&dv=&l=en

[johnnyonthespot]

For reference: lines 39 through 42 on this census page -

[johnnyonthespot]

Don't know if you have this already: Santa Rosa'a 1902 passenger manifest. She is traveling with a daughter, Donata, aged 18.

[johnnyonthespot]

Antonio is on line 11 of this 1901 manifest:

New York Passenger Lists, 1820-1957 about Antonio Di Battista
Name: Antonio Di Battista
Arrival Date: 17 Nov 1901
Birth Year: abt 1887
Age: 14
Gender: Male
Ethnicity/Race­/Nationality: Italian
Port of Arrival: New York, New York
Ship Name: Spartan Prince


More importantly, look at who is listed on line 12:

New York Passenger Lists, 1820-1957 about Angelos Cucciarello
Name: Angelos Cucciarello
Arrival Date: 17 Nov 1901
Birth Year: abt 1882
Age: 19
Gender: Male
Ethnicity/Race­/Nationality: Italian
Port of Arrival: New York, New York
Ship Name: Spartan Prince

Correct age, correct date of travel, traveling with a family member -- this must be Michele, don't you agree? Perhaps Michelangelo?

[Eleven]

I have the passenger list for Santa and Donata. The one for Antonio, my grandfather, I have for almost 20 years. I found that one at the NYC public library where it took several trips. The index card was so old, damaged and cracked, I could hardly see the year. I had to check several different years.

I dont think that Angelo is Michele, but then again, who knows..lol I have been in touch with Angelo's great niece (his brother's granddaughter). Her grandmother, married her own 2nd cousin. She spoke of this man as uncle angelo. I am definitely sure that Angelos last name is Tucciariello...but, I dont know if there is a Michele before the angelo. I have dont have any men, for this branch of the family with the duel name like Michelangelo, or even a middle name. I have seen the middle name for the women, tho.

I even looked for some other censuses, for Michele and came up with nothing. I havent tried looking for Angelo.

I sure do wish ancestry would get the records for this town. They have every almost every other town in Potenza except this one.

Thank you so much for your help, Carmine.

[Eleven]

Me again. I just sat here for 5 minutes, trying to figure out how to write this out so it makes sense. I am having great difficulty.

My grandfather and his sister, married another brother and sister.

The other couple had a daughter. The daughter is my grandfather's niece (twice) related on his side and on his wifes side.

This daughter married a man who we know to be a cousin, assuming it is her second cousin. Carmine Tucciariello..who is brother to the Angelo in the passenger list.

My grandfather's mother was Santa Rosa Tucciariello. She is the grandmother to the daughter above.

Because of this mass confusion, which probably needs a diagram to see properly, I went ahead and put into my family history program, Michele Tucciariello, as the brother of Santa Rosa Tucciariello.

I then did a relationship calculation to see how Michele, would be related to that daughter. It comes up as her great uncle..which would make the man she married, Carmine, come up as a great uncle, if I entered him as this guys brother (assuming him to be Michelangelo). That wouldnt work, since we know her to have married a cousin, not an uncle.

I hope this makes sense..and I got it out there straight. As you can tell, I couldnt even figure it out, without that relationship calculator.

[Eleven]

Now I am even more confused. Check up there on the manifest that shows Antonio DiBattista and Angelo Tucciariello. If you scroll across to where they are going, antonio says his father. Angelo is going to the same place..which he says is his uncle.

I know this checks out. I KNOW my great grandfather, Francesco, is Angelos uncle (as per his great niece, whom I have spoken to).

I know that Angelo has a brother Carmine. This Carmine, supposedly married his 2nd cousin, who is the daughter of that other brother and sister marriage..my grandfathers, sisters daughter. His niece, who was much younger than him.

Ok..so, we know Carmine and Angelo are brothers. For sure.

In 1902, on the ship passenger record of my grandmother, I show a Carmine Tucciariello.,,but he is crossed off. If you scroll across, he is going to his brother "Michele". I guess Carmine never made it that trip, because I found another manifest for apr 15, 1903, with the same Carmine (age matches) going to his brother "michele".

So we have Angelo..going to his uncle (my great grandfather). We have his brother Carmine going to his brother Michele..so that would make 3 brothers. If one is my great grandfather's nephew..that makes all of them nephews...so how is the Michele that I just found, my great grandfathers brother or brother in law?

And why cant I find any censuses for this Michele (or for Angelo, for that matter)?

[Eleven]

I am lmao here...wait, wait.

So, in 1905, I am finding this Michele on the census of my great grand parents.

We are trying to figure out if the Angelo that traveled here with my grandfather could be Michelangelo.,,and he is the Michele on the census.

I was almost thinking they were one and the same until this hit me.

1905 - a Michele is on the census.

But, in 1902 and again in 1903, he seems to have his own address, because thats where his brother Carmine was going. Why would he then be with my grandparents in 1905?

Ok, I am rambling now. For whomever is reading this..(and getting a headache) no matter when I find out...when i get to the bottom of this, I am going to find this thread and post what I find...lol

[johnnyonthespot]

You have woven a very complex web! I confess I cannot keep track of it without a diagram.

Do keep one thing in mind: not all of the Italians who arrived in the US stayed. Some never intended to stay. Others came, found the streets were not paved with Gold, and returned from whence they came. In many cases, men could not convince their wives to make the trip, or to stay once they tried making a new home.

Others made multiple trips - my paternal grandfather for example arrived the first time in 1904, returned to Italy in 1906, and arrived in the US the second/final time in May, 1910, thus just barely missing the 1910 census. I have seen others who made many, many, trips back and forth and could easily have missed intervening censuses.

[Eleven]

Yes, I do know that people returned. The other couple in the brother and sister, marrying brother and sister, went back to Italy, some time after late 2005. They stayed in Italy, but each one of their children returned to live here as adults.

I also cant find my great grandparents in a census (after this 1905 census). I am wondering if they also went home.

I also know that my husbands grandfather came here many, many times, to work, but never stayed. Then my father in law (his son) came here in his late teens and stayed.

As far as understanding this complex family situation. I have actually HAD to draw diagrams when trying to explain some of it to other family members...and I even have to deeply concentrate, myself..sometimes..and I am familiar with the relationships. This Michele thing had me so confused, that I had to put him in my family history program, before I could figure out his relationship to certain people.

If I ever find out exactly who he is, and what his relationship is, I will let you know. The only thing I know for sure is, he is NOT my great grandfathers brother (as it states on that census)..lol