Apostille Advice

[tomassid]

I think I have all of the documentation needed for dual citizenship but am not clear on the apostille process. I have seen internet sites that claim to do the apostille and translation for a price but I am nervous about sending original documents without knowing who to trust. Any suggestions?

[johnnyonthespot]

Tomassid,

I can give you the best answer if you will tell me what states issued the various birth, marriage, and death certificates which you have collected.

[tomassid]

Pennsylvania. Thanks for the help.

Dara

[johnnyonthespot]

Dara,

Sorry for the late reply.

Everything you need to know about apostilles for Pennsylvania-issued documents is on this state web site, http://www.portal.state.pa.us/portal/se ... ents/12630. The cost is $15 per document and the turnaround time is usually less than 5 days plus mailing time. I normally send documents for apostille via Priority Mail with Tracking becuase I hope it cuts down on the very small risk of loss. You can also send via Registered Mail, but I think that is overkill.

The actual instructions for submitting documents for apostille are on this page, http://www.portal.state.pa.us/portal/se ... on_/572569.

For translations, scan or photocopy your originals before sending them for apostille. Send the scans/photocopies to any translator of your choice (unless your consulate is one of the very rare ones which wants you to use a translator from their approved list). Do not pay additional fees for "certified translations" as these are not required by any consulate that I am aware of. Many people I know have used Gabriella Einaga ( gabriella_einaga@att.net ) for low-cost and accurate translations of certificates.

I hope this helps; let us know if you have additional questions.

[alm]

Hi, Carmine. I am still gathering documents but here is where I will be eventually (I hope):

father and grandmother birth certificates, grandmother and grandfather marriage certificate, grandmother and grandfather death certificates, my birth certificate - all Pennsylvania

mother's birth certificate and parents' marriage certificate - Ohio

my current home state - Massachusetts

So once I have everything I will submit all items to PA -- except one which goes to OH -- for apostilles. Right?

Do you know anything about submitting to Ohio?

And then I simply make an appt. in the Boston consulate and present everything? And they send to the commune in Italy?

Is that how it works?

(This is all assuming I can get my GF's birth certificate from Italy)

Thank you for your tireless assistance to everybody.

[johnnyonthespot]

mother's birth certificate and parents' marriage certificate - Ohio
...
So once I have everything I will submit all items to PA -- except one which goes to OH -- for apostilles. Right?

Do you know anything about submitting to Ohio?

You mean, two documents, correct?

Info regarding apostilles for Ohio documents: http://www.sos.state.oh.us/SOS/authentication.aspx. Wow! Only $5.00 per document! Here in Connecticut we are now being hit up for $40.00 per document.

And then I simply make an appt. in the Boston consulate and present everything? And they send to the commune in Italy?

Is that how it works?

(This is all assuming I can get my GF's birth certificate from Italy)

Yes, something like that. The actual decision regarding your case is made by the consulate's resident stato civile (? )officer; if he/she is satisfied that your documentation proves an unbroken Italian lineage, he notifies you that you have been recognized as an Italian citizen and forwards your documents to your ancestral comune to be registered.

If you haven't made an appointment yet, you may want to go ahead and do so. Many consulates have a waiting list of 9 to 18 months.

Thank you for your tireless assistance to everybody.

And thank you for thanking me.

PS: You didn't mention it in your post, but I presume you realize you also need to provide proof that your grandfather naturalized after your father's birth or that he never naturalized.

[alm]

Yes, two different documents in Ohio. I don't actually have them but I'm working on it.

And yes, GF - F - me. I just wrote to you in the Genealogy folder that I have GF's INS file but I'm not sure if what I got is "certified" or not. It appears to be just photocopies or printouts of the old documents -- the Declaration of Intent, the Petition, and the actual citizenship certificate (all dated after F's birth) plus some form letters addressed to me from INS stating they found these docs and are sending them to me. Is that good enough? Or do I need something else. Should the certificate have some present-day seal or stamp?

Oh, so the consulate makes the yea or nay decision before anything is sent to Italy?

What happens to the documents? The consulate sends them to the commune and then they go on file there?

Any experience with or words of wisdom about the Boston consulate?

[alm]

Also I would bake cookies and send them to you if I knew where you were!! Thank you!!

[johnnyonthespot]

Yes, the decision is made by the consulate and is final.

The direct line documents (generally, the only ones which require apostilles and translations) are forwarded to the comune for registration. The remaining documents will be kept in your file at the consulate; none of the submitted documents will be returned to you.

Reply to the naturalization papers question in the other thread.

I am a pretty fair baker - perhaps even "accomplished" - myself, though I work mostly with breads. My dream is to have a wood-fired brick oven in my back yard...

[alm]

Aren't here declarations or something that I as the applicant must fill out ahead of time?

Will the consulate want tax returns, bank statements, proof that there's no criminal records, that sort of thing?

It seems too easy to make an appt. and then just show up with a stack of citizenship, birth, marriage, and death certificates.


The Boston consulate citizenship page lists these things:





DOCUMENTATION TO BE PRESENTED WITH APPLICATION FOR CITIZENSHIP
Documentation SELF-CERTIFIABLE:

Certificate from the General Records Office with revenue stamp;

Certificate of family situation with revenue stamp;

Certificate of residence history; if there is more than one municipality of legal residence, certification of residence history for each municipality must be provided with revenue stamp;

Authenticated copies of tax forms 740 or 101 for the three years immediately preceding application, or certificate issued by the authorised tax office of income earned in the three years immediately preceding application.


Documentation NOT SELF-CERTIFIABLE:
application for citizenship to be made on a pre-printed form available at the Prefecture of the place of residence;

birth certificate from country of origin with all pertinent data; in the case of documented impossibility, statement issued by the diplomatic or consular authorities of the country of origin, duly translated and witnessed, indicating name, surname, date and place of birth as well as names of applicant’s father and mother;

Criminal record from applicant’s country of origin and country of residence (self-certificate from EU citizens only);

Authorisation of the authorities of the country of origin to release all pertinent information on the applicant that may be requested by the Italian diplomatic authorities, using the pre-printed form available from the Prefecture;

Declaration renouncing the protection of the Italian diplomatic and consular authorities from the authorities of the country of origin, using the pre-printed form available at the Prefecture (only for applicants requesting citizenship in order to reside in Italy)

Certificate with revenue stamp of Italian citizenship of spouse (only for those applying for citizenship following matrimony).

After application is made the following additional documentation will be requested by the competent authorities:

Certificate concerning charges pending in the applicant’s area of residence issued by the Public Prosecutor’s Office at the locally authorised courts;

Data concerning the applicant’s entrance and period of stay;

Copy of marriage certificate from the Italian municipality where the marriage is registered (only for those applying for citizenship following matrimony).


In order to shorten the process the applicant can always send certificates in his/her possession, even if not authenticated, by electronic means.


http://www.consboston.esteri.it/Consola ... tadinanza/



When my dad was 4, this would have been about 1930, he got paid a nickel to work in the pizza shop cleaning the oven. He was small enough to climb inside the over and clean it out. First his older brother had the job and then when Giacinto got too big they gave the to my dad. http://www.italiangenealogy.com/forum/p ... 4&p=162829#

[johnnyonthespot]

Much of that stuff applies to persons seeking naturalization; not jure sanguinis cases such as yours.

In short, you will be providing documentation of the fact that you are and always were an Italian citizen. If the consulate agrees that your documentary evidence is valid, then they will "recognize" you to have been an Italian citizen since birth. You no more need to prove criminal history or financial means than does any infant child born in Italy to Italian parents. In theory, you could be currently serving a life term in prison for multiple felonious crimes and still have your citizenship jure sanguinis recognized.

The Boston consulate doesn't have any citizenship-related forms on their site as does New York and Philadelphia (and others). These other consulates require the applicant fill out a form listing the names of the cities he has lived in since the age of 18 and swearing that he has never formally renounced his right to Italian citizenship.

Also required is that a similar form be completed for each "Italian" ascendant - your father and grandfather - to be completed and signed by the person himself if living or by the applicant if not. Is your father healthy enough to join you at the consulate when the time comes? If yes, it would be best if he does so. If not, you will probably have to have him complete a similar form and sign it in the presence of a notary public.

Finally, you will need to prove that you are resident within the jurisdiction of the Boston consular region (Maine, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, Rhode Island, Vermont - http://www.ambwashingtondc.esteri.it/Am ... consolare/ ). This is usually done by presenting a driver's license and/or utility bill, bank statement, etc which shows your current address.

[alm]

Should I ask for an relevant forms such as you describe at the time I make the appointment?

I live close enough to the consulate to go there and walk in. Do you recommend I go in person to book the appointment and get any citizenship paperwork in advance?

[johnnyonthespot]

According to this brochure, http://www.consboston.esteri.it/NR/rdon ... enship.pdf, you should contact the consulate at:

Vital records and Citizenship
statocivile.boston@esteri.it
Tel: 617-722-9303

These days, most consulates (US and otherwise) frown on walk-ins for security reasons. I don't know how you might make out at Boston.

Regards other matters, there have been a few members here who have recent experience with the Boston consulate. Try the forum Search function.

[alm]

Will do. Thanks so much! Grazie!