Newark Appt Recap

[sforza]

Consulate: Newark
Father's case: GGF=>GF=>F
Mother's case: GF=>F
Both born pre-1948, so couldn't use maternal lines
Father's GGF naturalized 1890

The first surprising aspect of the appointment is that it was conducted entirely at the window, where we pushed papers through the slot.

The official was very, very nice. We started with my father, where she asked for the birth cert of his GGF. She began to write on her note paper a date that was 50-yrs later than his birthday. I pointed this out and she looked at the early birthdate and said somethig akin to "gosh." I commented that he was married late in life. She then wrote "pre-1912" on her note paper even before we got to the subject of naturalization. I began to get a bad feeling. She asked for the death cert, which came from NYC municipal archives and couldn't be changed. No major errors - just the translation issue of Giacomo to James, which she didn't seem to care about. She then asked for his Italian marriage certificate, which I gave her. Next she asked for the naturalization, which I gave her. She looked at this very closely but said nothing. I then gave her the ship manifest, to show the immigration year of the married couple, and an awful copy of the 1890 nyc police census showing all of them living together as a family after their son, my father's GF, was born. She then asked for the GF's birth cert. I gave her this document, also from municipal archives. It was a truly crappy copy. She commented that she couldn't read the year - I directed her to the year on the filing date stamp, which was much clearer than the year in the handwritten DoB. She then asked for the death certificate of the GGF's wife, the GF's mother. I did have this - also from municipal archives - a copy even more hideous than the GF's birth cert. But the two items that were actually legible were her name and DoD. I remain curious as to why she requested this. She wrote down the date of death. She then asked for the marriage cert of the GF. This was the moment of truth - I never found this document. I handed over to her the no-records ltr from NYC municipal archives, fifteen or so no-records ltrs from churches, and three census documents showing that they represented themselves as a married couple for census purposes. She said that she would need to confer with her supervisor as to whether this was a deal killer. She said she thought the documentation we brought was very helpful and that it perhaps wouldn't be a huge deal that there's no marriage cert, but needed confirmation from the supervisor. She asked for the GF's death cert and then all the documents for my father's father and himself. That all went smoothly.
Here's the kicker. My translations were unacceptable and she told me to find a certified translator. She also wanted all of the above documents that were issued in NY to go to the NYC consulate for a verification stamp. I think because several of my documents came from municipal archives and the rest were amended by NYC Vital Records, that she wants the NYC consulate to verify authenticity. So I hope this is something I can do on a walk-in basis.
She then said the following to my father - You are eligible to apply. I was elated. I don't want to jinx it, but I took this to mean that the pre-1912 naturalization was not an issue and that we could work on the missing marriage certificate issue.
My mother: Everything went smoothly there, but she wanted the Pennsylvania birth certificate of my mother's father to be stamped by the Philly consulate. She didn't like the birth certificate created by the county. It's on plain white xerox paper and doesn't look official. She said "this is not what the state issues." I agreed and told her that in PA, the state only issues certificates from 1906 on. My mother's father was born in 1904 so the certificate would have to be issued by the county. And I agreed that the paper the county used was cheesy. My mother's GF didn't naturalize. She looked closely at the seven or so no-records ltrs from the authorities in the various places he lived. I also included a copy of his 1951 alien registration card. He did fill out a declaration of intent in 1917, when the US required alien registration, but never followed up. I produced three censuses and his death cert, all of which said he was not a US citizen. His NJ death cert said he was an Italian citizen. At the end of the process, she said my mother's case was simpler and would move more quickly than my father's.
She ended the meeting describing how I could eventually register myself- as if my parent's applications were a done-deal.
A couple of observations - amendments matter. She was pleased that we had everything amended. Most of our amendments were fixing middle names. She noted that there were no discrepancies in the documents. Also, translations matter. I spent two all-nighters doing them - I did my very best. They sucked. She did not appreciate it. Although we eventually joked about it - she stopped asking for them and pushed them back through the window to me. I said, "I guess you've had enough butchery of the Italian language for today." She laughed.
So that was that. The whole process took two hours. I've been instructed to call her at the end of August when both she and the supervisor are back in the office. By that point, I hope to have my father's NYC documents verified and stamped by the NYC consulate and my mother's PA doc verified and stamped by the Philly consulate. As for the latter, I'm assuming I'll have to go to Philly in-person, as I'm not sure how it will work out. The birth cert came from a small county in PA (and has a PA state apostille). She said that states will apostille anything - even a recipe - if it has an official signature on it. My concern is that I would not be surprised if this particular birth cert is different even from others issued in that county since it was a delayed registration of birth and is simply an MS word document with a county clerk stamp. If anyone has any experience with this as an issue, let me know.
Finally, we have about twelve docs to retranslate. And I will continue to hunt for a marriage cert for my dad's GF. However, I don't think I'll ever find one.

[williamsburger]

thank you SO MUCH for posting this information -- i really appreciate you giving us a sense of how the newark consulate was, as this is where i will have my appointment.

please keep us posted on the issue of "NYC consulate verification"...that isn't something i had heard about on these boards, and i would love to be able to take care of it before i go to newark.

good luck!

[mler]

I found that interesting as well--something new from Newark. Particularly important to some of our posters is that they seem to not make an issue of a pre-1912 naturalization.

Interesting too about the translations. The submitted my own translations to Newark, and they were accepted (but that was several years ago.

[sforza]

Re: the translations, I did avail myself of applicable template language. The flaws in my translations, however, were mine alone: I was overzealous in some areas, and lazy in others. I tried to translate some street names into Italian - not necessary. Also, as the night wore on and I became more and more tired, I forgot to insert accents. At the end of the day, I believe that had my translations not been so bush-league, I would not have been sent to the NYC Consulate for authentication. Likewise, I think the weirdness of my GF's birth cert from Clearfield County, PA is why I was sent to the Philly Consulate for authentication of that doc. To this point, although all the translations had the same flaws, I do NOT have to get my NJ docs retranslated.
Re: pre-1912 naturalization, I was really rolling the dice, particularly since the next-in-line was a minor at the time. Although as someone (I think Jennabet) pointed out, there's no prohibition of pre-1912 naturalizations on the Newark Consulate's website and they didn't discourage me from making an appointment.

[sforza]

please keep us posted on the issue of "NYC consulate verification"...that isn't something i had heard about on these boards, and i would love to be able to take care of it before i go to newark.

good luck!

A couple of things on consular authentication of documents. The department that handles it at the NY Consulate is the stato civile/cittidinanza department. (Do not ask the legal/notary dep't - they will tell you that they don't do that.) You can drop off the docs, but can't wait and can't pick them up - you have to leave a SASE. I inquired about the timeframe, but I haven't heard back. The Philly consulate, on the other hand, will do it while you wait, and it's done through the legal/notary department.

[williamsburger]

A couple of things on consular authentication of documents. The department that handles it at the NY Consulate is the stato civile/cittidinanza department. (Do not ask the legal/notary dep't - they will tell you that they don't do that.) You can drop off the docs, but can't wait and can't pick them up - you have to leave a SASE. I inquired about the timeframe, but I haven't heard back. The Philly consulate, on the other hand, will do it while you wait, and it's done through the legal/notary department.

Sforza, thank you for the prompt reply! I assume, based on your description, that you went to the Consulate directly to take care of these issues... Good to know! It seems like I will need to wear some very good walking boots over the next few weeks, as I try to finalize all my apostilles, amendments, etc.

[sforza]

I haven't yet walked the documents through. I'm in the process of getting everything retranslated. I got the information above by corresponding with the Consulates via email.

[ChrisMosca]

Thanks for the information, I have my appointment on November at Newark. I also need to get my documents translated, let me know who you end up using. Does anyone have experience with having documents form another country other then the U.S and Italy?

thanks!!