Help please! Frosinone military archives

[howars01]

I wrote requesting my grandfather Francesco Minchella's military papers (he served in Word War 1 in Italy) but received the following reply:

"In risposta alla richiesta in oggetto, Le comunichiamo che questo Archivio di Stato conserva le liste di leva per il solo periodo 1923 – 1935."

I understand they destroyed the liste di leva but have copies of the foglio matricolare (record of the person's military service). I did ask for ANY military records so don't understand why I received this reply.

Can anyone help please?

[howars01]

With reference to the first message, I found the following information on the Abruzzo forum:

"Military records for conscription soldiers are kept usually in the archivio di stato of the Province (l'Aquila, Teramo, Campobasso etc). For newer provinces (created after 1923) the old province has the records, for example the province of Pescara has military records depending on the place in Teramo or CHieti, Isernia is in Campobasso, Frosinone is in Caserta."

So I probably need to write to Caserta archives?

[adelfio]

This comes from Frosinone Archivi di Stato
Nel fondo DISTRETTO MILITARE DI FROSINONE sono raccolte le liste di leva e i ruoli matricolari (con rubriche alfabetiche) dei giovani delle classi (nati) tra il 1877 e il 1933. Per ogni iscritto delle liste di leva si riportano maternità, paternità, il domicilio, la professione, i dati somatici e l'esito della visita. I ruoli riferiscono invece sulla durata del servizio militare prestato, le campagne di guerra, il corpo di assegnazione fino al congedo (soldati semplici e sottufficiali). Nel fondo sono presenti alcuni registri riferiti a coscritti di comuni dell'attuale provincia di Parma (classi 1916-1929). I fondi sono soggetti a implementazione periodica.

In the bottom MILITARY DISTRICT OF FROSINONE collected lists of military roles and serial numbers (with alphabetic headings) Youth classes (births) between 1877 and 1933. For each member of the lists of leverage are given maternity, paternity, residence, occupation, somatic data and the outcome of the visit. Roles refer instead to the duration of military service, the campaigns of the war, the awarding body to leave (ordinary soldiers and junior officers). In the background there are some records relating to the common conscripts of the province of Parma (classes 1916-1929). The funds are subject to periodic implementation.
Did you request this way in your email
Potreste cercare l’ registro di leva o registro dei foglie matricolari
Can you try the 'register lever or register serial numbers

Marty

[howars01]

Hello Adelfio

Thank you for your reply. However, I was told that all the listi de leva were in fact destroyed as Frosinone archives did not have enough room to store them. Also, that the province of Frosinone was only 'created' in 1923 so that before that time all military papers relating to men eligible for military service were held in Caserta.

[howars01]

Sorry, with reference to my last message, I did ask Frosinone archives for the registro dei foglie matricolari. I am wondering whether they didn't quite understand what I meant! I put my request in Italian with the help of Google Translate but sometimes it comes out wrongly.

[adelfio]

Sorry, with reference to my last message, I did ask Frosinone archives for the registro dei foglie matricolari. I am wondering whether they didn't quite understand what I meant! I put my request in Italian with the help of Google Translate but sometimes it comes out wrongly.

Could you post the mesage you sent for the record
Try the Archivio di Stato Caserta
E-Mail: as-ce@beniculturali.it
Egregi signori,
Mi chiamo YOUR NAME. Sto facendo una ricerca sui miei antenati e ho bisogno delle informazioni dai vostri registri.
I miei antenati provennero da TOWN . Vorrei sapere di più di loro.
Potreste cercare l’ registro di leva o registro dei foglie matricolari di questa persona nei vostri registri dal YEAR fino al YEAR?
Nome e cognome: NAME
Data di nascita: BIRTHDATE
Luogo di nascita: TOWN BORN IN
Nome e cognome del padre: FATHERincerto if not known
Nome e cognome della madre: MOTHERincerto if not known
Se non avete i registri corrispondenti, potete fornire l’indirizzo dell’archivio dove in cui i registri possano essere trovati?
Vi prego di informarmi se sia possibile ottenere delle fotocopie dei vostri registri.
Vi ringrazio in anticipo per il vostro gentilezza e premura.
Distinti saluti,

YOUR NAME ADDRESS EMAIL

[howars01]

Adelfio, thank you so much for providing the wording for the email. Unfortunately, I don't know the name of the town in which my grandfather was born, in fact this is the main thing I am searching for. I only know the region is probably Frosinone.

This is what I sent to the Frosinone Archives:

"Gentile Direttrice

Sono alla ricerca della mia storia famigliare, gradirei, se le fosse possibile, richiedere il suo aiuto.

Per favore, potrebbe gentilmente inviare del Registro di leva, registro dei Fogli matricolari e Foglio di Ruolo di Francesco Minchella, (figlio di Antonio Minchella), nato il 1893 in questa Provincia. Aveva un fratello di nome Luigi.

Francisco è venuto in Inghilterra intorno al 1911 e rimesso in servizio nella Prima Guerra Mondiale 1. Ritornò in Inghilterra dopo la guerra e si sposò ed ebbe dei figli. Morì in un incidente in moto nel 1928.


Vi prego di volermi comunicare l'ammontare dovuto per spese e postali nonché specificare il metodo di pagamento da voi
preferito.


Se il documento non può essere trovato, Le sarei grata se potesse suggerirmi come e dove proseguire la mia ricerca.


Vi ringrazio in anticipo per il vostro gentilezza e premura."

It probably didn't make much sense to them!! How would I say in Italian: he was born somewhere in the Frosinone area?

I am really grateful for your help, Adelfio.

[adelfio]

Just a question is this possible your Francesco Minchella Birth Year:abt 1890 leaving from Southampton, England Arrival New York Date:16 Jun 1913 Ship Name:New York says he was born in Cassino (Frosinone)(Caserta)
Click for record click to enlarge pg1 lines 10 11



Click for record click to enlarge pg2 lines 10 11



Marty

[howars01]

Thank you for posting this ship's manifest but Francesco never went to New York. He was born in Italy and came to the United Kingdom at the age of 18. He went back to Italy to serve in World War 1 in 1915 and then returned to England, married and had three children, but unfortunately was killed in a motorcycle accident in 1928.

[adelfio]

Have you gotten his death record?
I thought about it if you send email to Caserta you still will have the same problem you dont know the town he was born in. Maybe you should try Cassino (Frosinone) the surname Minchella is common to the town and you know the name of the father Antonio Minchella you could get a birth film from Family History Library Cassino (Frosinone),they have records 1809-1900 and they have Nati(BIRTHS) 1885-1897 FHL INTL film 1882371 it would be a $7.00 investment could get lucky

Marty

[howars01]

Thanks for your suggestions Adelfio.

I have Francesco's death record but unfortunately in England they only began putting the town of birth on death records from 1959 and he died in 1928.

That is a very good idea to search in the Cassino records. It is a little difficult to read the records in English Family History Centres because the screen slopes backwards away from you (I don't know whether it is the same in Family History Centres in other countries?) and of course unfortunately I don't speak Italian. I can, however, take a sample of a birth record written in Italian with me so that I understand the basic words!

Thanks again and I will let you know what happens.


Susan

[adelfio]

The year ____, the day __ of ____ month to hours _____ and minutes __ in the Town Hall . In my presence _____Name_______ and civil records officer of ________Comune name_______, it is appeared _____Name__________ of age __, ____profession_______ domicile in ________, that it declare to me, that in the hours ____ and ___ minutes of day __ _____ month in the house of ____address, street or section_____, from ___mother's name___ wife of age __, ___profession____ with the inhabitant, it is born a baby of __(male or female)___ sex that it present us and that it declare of to give to this baby the first name of ____________. The presentation and the declaration above mentioned it is made in the presence of ____Name_____ of age __, ____profession____ and of ____Name______ of age __ __________, ______ resident of_______. Read the present act to declaring and to witnesses,
copyright Cosenza exchange

Marty

[howars01]

Oh, thanks, that's so helpful! I really appreciate all the help you and others on this forum are giving me.


Susan

[howars01]

Heard from Caserta today as follows:

"We inform you that the serial numbers of the common roles of the ancient province of Caserta, which are now part of the Province of Frosinone, are preserved in the State of Frosinone which consequently should go."

Does anyone know what they mean by serial numbers please?

Anyway, Frosinone only have the records from 1923 to 1936!!

HELP!!!!!

[adelfio]

Did you ever check his church records marriage and death for his info in England

Marty