Paolo Giorgi Revisited - Marriage & Death Certificates

[argentuban]

So I found more information on my great grandfather, and confirmed who his parents were. As I suspected, and as noted on both his marriage certificate in Argentina and his death certificate in Argentina, he was born to Domenico Giorgi and Jacopina Pellinacci.

His marriage certificate says he was from Massa, but since Garfagnana was part of Massa before it was returned to Lucca in 1923, that fits and makes sense.

So I have a lot of paperwork, formal and certified, not he Argentina side that confirms his marriage, death, parentage of my grandfather; I just do not have any record from Italy yet for him.

I am nervous and hopeful, but they are apparently having to dig deep. I just hope they find his record.

Any idea what the chances are? How likely/plausible is it that he would have been born in Italy and there not be a christening record?

[Italysearcher]

It is highly unlikely he was not baptized. Your biggest problem will be determining the parish.
Are you asking the Diocese to help with this?

[argentuban]

His brother Angelo was baptized in Vagli Sotto, and was born 2 years after him. Vagli Sotto is where we are looking, and it makes sense. For one, then probably wouldn't have moved much then as they were shepherds. For another, his marriage certificate says he was form Massa. I know Vagli is in Lucca, but it is part of Garfagnana, which was part of Massa until 1923 when it was returned to Lucca.

If we come up zeroes in Vagli we plan on looking in all neigh borings areas within Lucca as well as Massa.

[adelfio]

Another sibling born in Pontedera
Here is the birth of Sabatino Giovacchino Lorenzo Giorgi
INDEX#243
1878 Aug 11th in the town of Pontedera birth of Sabatino Giovacchino Lorenzo Giorgi son of Domenico Giorgi age 40 shepherd (son of deceased Antonio Giorgi) living in Vagli Sotto and Jacopa Pellinacci age 40 shepherd (daughter of deceased Angiolo Pellinacci

PG LINK TO RECORD
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/T ... ,387190201

Marty

[adelfio]

Another sibling born in Pontedera
Here is the birth of Carlo Giuseppe Giorgi
INDEX#46
1875 Feb 4th in the town of Pontedera birth of Carlo Giuseppe Giorgi son of Domenico Giorgi age 36 shepherd (son of deceased Antonio Giorgi) living in Vagli Sotto and Jacopa Pellinacci age 35 shepherd (daughter of deceased Angiolo Pellinacci) sidenote says married Maria Giosa 9/9/1915 and Chiara Alberti 6/13/1923

PG LINK TO RECORD
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/T ... ,387190201

Marty

[argentuban]

We know that later siblings, thanks for that, were baptized in Pontedera. That being said, according tot he record that we have on Angelo Giorgi, born in 66 I believe, the records are out of Vagli Sotto. I am confirming this, but this is what we have, and he was born 2 years after Paolo.

If we draw blanks in Vagli, Pontedera, for christenings, is our best bet. It makes sense as they did wind up having a house in neighboring Cascina, but I wouldn't understand why they would have had that house and lived in Vagli for decades. I would have thought that they got that house much later.

[paola52]

The two birth records from Pontedera says that Domenico Giorgi had his residence in Vagli di Sopra
Sheperds moved a lot, seasonally, so he could have his house and his official residence in a village while in fact living in another town for most of the time
Ciao
Paola

[argentuban]

Vagli di Sopra is within/part of Vagli Sotto. But what would logically follow is if they resided there and got the christenings in Pontedera, then perhaps the same can be said of the elder brothers Angelo and Paolo.

I will probably push to look there as well given this history.

[adelfio]

Carlo Giorgi married Chiara Alberti 6/13/1923 in Calcinaia

Marty

[argentuban]

Makes sense, as Calcinaia is in the vicinity of Pontedera and Cascina, where they had a huge house I visited my last trip to Italy.

[adelfio]

His brother Angelo was baptized in Vagli Sotto, and was born 2 years after him. Vagli Sotto is where we are looking, and it makes sense. For one, then probably wouldn't have moved much then as they were shepherds. For another, his marriage certificate says he was form Massa. I know Vagli is in Lucca, but it is part of Garfagnana, which was part of Massa until 1923 when it was returned to Lucca.

If we come up zeroes in Vagli we plan on looking in all neigh borings areas within Lucca as well as Massa.

What date is Angelo Giorgi baptized in Vagli Sotto? Can you post that record if you have it
You went through the baptism registry 1861-1865 of Pontedera online?
Marty

[argentuban]

I believe his birth would have been in 1866. This is what I have for Angelo Giorgi:

[adelfio]

It says Angelo Giorgi born 1868 son of Domenico Giorgi age 30 shepherd(son of deceased Antonio Giorgi) the baby was born from a union a women who chosen not to be named

PG LINK TO RECORD
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/T ... ,350145302
Marty

[argentuban]

That sounds rather ominous....

But as you can see this record was out of Vagli, so it would suggest that Paolo's would be as well. However, there might not be record given the detail you just told me.

Paolo's marriage certificate and death certificate in Argentina both state he is the son of Domenico Giorgi and Jacopina Pellinacci, however, but I don't see that helping much with Italian authorities.

[adelfio]

If this the right Angelo Giorgi his parents most likely married later and recognized their children

Marty