RE: BIRTH RECORDS IN REGGIO DI CALABRIA

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mezzogiorno62
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RE: BIRTH RECORDS IN REGGIO DI CALABRIA

Post by mezzogiorno62 »

found a marriage record for paolo labate and fortunata labate in reggio di calabria in 1859. their son orazio was born in 1872. according to the marriage record paolo was 32 born about 1827 and fortunata was 22 born about 1837. unfortunately the ages given at a marriage never match ages given at births of the children or deaths. this is common in all these records. often years off. but going by the ages given at the time of marriage, probably the most accurate,i checked 1825-1829 for paolo and 1835-1839 for fortunata, allowing 2 years each way,but found nothing. this is a large city so not so easy to simply scan through all the births in a specific year. great if there were indexed records in a searchable database. that would save much time and effort. if anyone is aware of such a database spanning the years 1809-1865 that would be great. trying not only to find these birth records, which would give the approximate ages of their parents,(paolo-antonino & grazia ieraca and fortunata-paolo & maria pulitano) but also their death records.
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mmogno
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Re: RE: BIRTH RECORDS IN REGGIO DI CALABRIA

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mezzogiorno62
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Re: RE: BIRTH RECORDS IN REGGIO DI CALABRIA

Post by mezzogiorno62 »

no idea what processetti is. what i would need is an index of births,marriages,and deaths starting in 1809 and continuing at least to 1865. similiar to what youve done on your site but for an earlier time period. another example would be the palermo marriage indexes,which cover all marriages in palermo from 1820-1895. idon't bother with parish records any longer for several reasons.1.could be many parishes in a city as opposed to a small town. without knowing the parish it would be a massive search.2.the handwriting is often much more illegible than in the civil records. 3.rarely contains information like ages of subjects or even parents. i just stick with civil records. unfortunately this only goes back to 1809 on the mainland and 1820 in sicily.
rlw254
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Re: RE: BIRTH RECORDS IN REGGIO DI CALABRIA

Post by rlw254 »

Processetti are the supplemental documents provided for a marriage that include birth records of both parties and often death records of their parents and sometimes grandparents.

Here is where Paolo's starts:
http://dl.antenati.san.beniculturali.it ... ewsIndex=0
And continues for a few pages afterwards.
Apricena, Caltanissetta, Grottolella, Mazzarino, Montefredane, Salerno, San Severo, Vasto
mezzogiorno62
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Re: RE: BIRTH RECORDS IN REGGIO DI CALABRIA

Post by mezzogiorno62 »

hard to read. looks like paolo's year of birth was 1827? age of father antonino was 40? couldnt make out anything for grazia ieraca paolo's mother. possibly 26? would paolo's wife fortunata be in these same processetti? i've heard of them but never really went into them. pretty much stuck with births,marriages,and deaths. but they may be helpful in finding information not found in the other records,and which could lead to more help in finding missing information. lead to more birth,marriage,and death information. if only there were a way to establish the years of death for paolo and fortunata and the deaths of their parents,antonino and grazia (paolo) and paolo and maria pulitano (fortunata). so many paolo labates it gets confusing. fortunata's father was paolo labate and she married one. thanks much
rlw254
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Re: RE: BIRTH RECORDS IN REGGIO DI CALABRIA

Post by rlw254 »

1. Paolo Labate born 3 Aug 1827 to Antonio Labate, 40, and Grazia Ieraca, 27
2. Death on 4 Feb 1852 of Antonio Labate, 42 (age seems off compared to above), son of Fortunato Labate & Dolina? Albanese (both deceased)
3. Death on 24 Dec 1853 of Grazia Ieraca, 60, widow of Antonio Labate, daughter of Gregorio Ieraca & Anna Marino (both deceased)
4. Fortunata Labate born 14 Nov 1836 to parents Paolo Labate, 33, and Maria Politano, 30
Apricena, Caltanissetta, Grottolella, Mazzarino, Montefredane, Salerno, San Severo, Vasto
mezzogiorno62
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Re: RE: BIRTH RECORDS IN REGGIO DI CALABRIA

Post by mezzogiorno62 »

ok. so now i have paolo labate and fortunata's birth years,1827 and 1836. as antonino,paolo's father,was 40 in 1827,and his wife,grazia ieraca,was 27,that would make them born about 1787 and 1800. antonino died in 1852 and he would have been about 65 not 42. way off there. 23 years. i see variations in ages in these records. different ages given at the marriage vs the birth of a child,or a death. but 23 years is huge. grazia ieraca,his wife,died in 1853 age 60 according to the record. 3 years off from the age given at the birth of son paolo in 1827. in the 1817 marriage record of antonino labate and grazia ieraca his parents are given as paolo and anna lamberti. not fortunato and dolina? just wonder if this is the correct antonio/antonino labate,as the age and the parents don't match. but this is all a great help. thought i was quite an expert in italian records over the last 20 plus years. but mostly at births,marriages,and deaths. now i'll look more into processetti. that could/does lead to more birth.marriage,and death information. this almost completes the information i needed to fill in. now i just need death information for paolo labate and wife fortunata,who died after the 1872 birth of son orazio,and the deaths of fortunata's parents,paolo labate (same name as husbands) and wife maria pulitano. they would have died anytime after fortunata's birth in 1836. thanks so much. i'm assuming these records are in more processetti records? this is where a death index could have helped. going up to 1900 or beyond. fortunata'sparents most definitely died before 1900,being born around 1800, but paolo and fortunata, being born in 1827 and 1836, could have lived well beyond 1900. still a lot of years to check. as reggio is such a large city its doubtful the civil registry would check. paolo and fortunata could have died any time from 1872 up to 1900 and beyond. fortunata's parents,paolo and maria pulitano,could have died anytime from her birth in 1836 up until the late 1800s. big time spans. just need to find the processetti records to find these 4 death records.
rlw254
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Re: RE: BIRTH RECORDS IN REGGIO DI CALABRIA

Post by rlw254 »

Processetti documents can be incorrect sometimes. I have seen it before where the documents were likely obtained hastily and so someone with the correct name but no other correct details may show up. For example there is no indication that the Antonio Labate that died in 1852 was the husband of Grazia Ieraca. He may have just had the same name and it was the first one the searcher found when compiling the documents.

Fortunata's parents were still alive for their marriage in 1859. This is why death records for them were not included in the processetti. You can use the indici decennali to help with the search: http://dl.antenati.san.beniculturali.it ... decennali/
Apricena, Caltanissetta, Grottolella, Mazzarino, Montefredane, Salerno, San Severo, Vasto
mezzogiorno62
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Re: RE: BIRTH RECORDS IN REGGIO DI CALABRIA

Post by mezzogiorno62 »

i checked that out.problem is the writing is extremely difficult to read. not so much the time it takes to go through the years but the handwriting and fading. i'm looking for 1.the paolo labate and fortunata labate who married in 1859. ages 32 and 22. if they lived after 1895,which they could well have, the won't be in here. 2.the parents of fortunata labate,paolo and maria politano,on the other hand,would probably be here as they were born ca.1800 and most likely were deceased by 1895. note: i just briefly checked out all the indices 1866-1875 1876-1885 and1886-1895. nothing. i checked for all 4 deaths and i might have missed them,but i should have found at least the deaths of paolo labate and wife maria politano. not so much chance for daughter fortunata and her husband paolo labate. i tried to very carefully enlarge and scrutinize the entries. lots of labates. few paolo's surprisingly and only 1 fortunata. checked both politano and pulitano as well. hopefully a database will be created to index all these records,but probably not in my lifetime. also thinking the death date of 1852 for antonino is probably correct, even if the age given and the parents aren't, as this information was included in paolo's processetti marriage record,and is followed by the death information for grazia ieraca,mother of paolo and wife of antinino. thanks again for lots of help and some new directions.
mezzogiorno62
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Re: RE: BIRTH RECORDS IN REGGIO DI CALABRIA

Post by mezzogiorno62 »

i even checked the marriage indexes on your website for possible marriages of any children born to paolo abate and fortunata labate as well as fortunatas parents paolo labate and maria politano. didnt find any in all those years you indexed. what i was hoping was to find possible marriages for any of these children, then go to processetti to see if there were any atto di morte documents for paolo and wife fortunata, or for fortunata's parents, paolo labate and maria politano. no success there. considering paolo labate and maria politano were born ca.1800-1806 ,i was hoping one of their children might have married in reggio in and that would have possibly revealed their death dates,most likely before 1900. same with paolo labate and wife fortunata. they were born in 1827 and 1836,so the marriage records of any of their children marrying in reggio might have revealed their death dates,possibly after 1900. as most people had several children i would have thought there would be some marriages of children born to these parents in the years 1866 to 1905 or later. but surprisingly i found nothing in 40 years plus of indexed marriages.
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