Ethnicity vs. skin tone

Genetic genealogy is the application of genetics to traditional genealogy. Genetic genealogy involves the use of genealogical DNA testing to determine the level and type of the genetic relationship between individuals.
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darkerhorse
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Re: Ethnicity vs. skin tone

Post by darkerhorse »

Are French-Canadians known for olive skin? if yes, how can you tell French from Italian skin?
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MarcuccioV
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Re: Ethnicity vs. skin tone

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darkerhorse wrote: 24 Jul 2021, 21:14 Are French-Canadians known for olive skin? if yes, how can you tell French from Italian skin?
French Canadians I don't know. I only personally know one and he is light-skinned.

For the French I suppose it depends on location. Southern France borders on Spain & southeastern France on Italy. In those areas possibly (or at least to a minor extent). In the parts that border Germany or Belgium, I would think not so much.

I don't think I've even known anyone from France that was olive. At least not that I remember.

Just checked DNA matches -- 2 more (of 2) paternal matches with traces of Italian ancestry. But not on their trees...
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darkerhorse
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Re: Ethnicity vs. skin tone

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If you search passenger lists on Ancestry.com for "olive complexion" exact, and scroll down the results you'll see a variety of descriptions under Ethnicity/Nationality.

Portuguese seems to be prevalent.

It shows you the range of other possibilities, Italian matches aside.

Of course, each culture may have it's own definition of "olive" and different practices for coding complexions.

In Italy, "natural" seems to be the default category and could mean anything, as I explore under another topic.
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MarcuccioV
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Re: Ethnicity vs. skin tone

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darkerhorse wrote: 25 Jul 2021, 18:45 If you search passenger lists on Ancestry.com for "olive complexion" exact, and scroll down the results you'll see a variety of descriptions under Ethnicity/Nationality.

Portuguese seems to be prevalent.

It shows you the range of other possibilities, Italian matches aside.

Of course, each culture may have it's own definition of "olive" and different practices for coding complexions.

In Italy, "natural" seems to be the default category and could mean anything, as I explore under another topic.
I'm sure there are different shades or "gradients" of olive based on ethnicity.

Since both the matrices and chromosomes indicate Italian (and not Iberian or Middle-Eastern), as well as DNA matches that show a preponderance of Italian traces as opposed to anything else, it only makes sense to go with that as a basis for the olive tones on my father's side. If there was another prevalent olive-toned ethnicity, it would be another story.

Finding it (at least as far as documentation goes) is another subject entirely...
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darkerhorse
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Re: Ethnicity vs. skin tone

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I found another test for olive skin is not blushing.
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Re: Ethnicity vs. skin tone

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My cheeks don't blush.
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MarcuccioV
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Re: Ethnicity vs. skin tone

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darkerhorse wrote: 29 Jul 2021, 19:48 My cheeks don't blush.
Mine don't either. Neither did either of my parents.
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Re: Ethnicity vs. skin tone

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I found this old family photo taken at Christmas.

Based on your analysis of features and skin color, what do you think their ancestry mix might be?
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Re: Ethnicity vs. skin tone

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darkerhorse wrote: 29 Jul 2021, 21:33 I found this old family photo taken at Christmas.

Based on your analysis of features and skin color, what do you think their ancestry mix might be?
That's a good one. Definitely mixed ancestry. A couple look pretty pale -- they probably need to get out into the sun a little more... :P
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darkerhorse
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Re: Ethnicity vs. skin tone

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I'd say Irish, French, Italian, Jewish, English, and Japanese.
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MarcuccioV
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Re: Ethnicity vs. skin tone

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darkerhorse wrote: 30 Jul 2021, 00:17 I'd say Irish, French, Italian, Jewish, English, and Japanese.
And with a bountiful sense of humor... :)

Oh, wait -- that has nothing to do with skin tone -- or does it..? :lol:
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Re: Ethnicity vs. skin tone

Post by joetucciarone »

26AUG1899_Sicilians_in_Louisiana.jpg
I just found this 1899 newspaper article about the categorization of Italians in Louisiana, based on their swarthy skin tone.
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Re: Ethnicity vs. skin tone

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joetucciarone wrote: 01 Oct 2021, 14:22 26AUG1899_Sicilians_in_Louisiana.jpgI just found this 1899 newspaper article about the categorization of Italians in Louisiana, based on their swarthy skin tone.
Very interesting. Sounds very much like my grandfather, who was rather dark untanned and extremely dark tanned. Yet in documentation (census lists) he is listed under "W" (white) for race.

In some cases, Calabrese (as well as some of the other southern regions) were even darker than Sicilians...

Also for giggles & grins the article is dated on my birthday (albeit many decades before)...
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darkerhorse
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Re: Ethnicity vs. skin tone

Post by darkerhorse »

I'm unclear as to what you consider olive skin and dark skin, and what the effects of tanning are on skin color.

In your view, do Asians have olive skin? What about Latinos?

I believe there are Italians who are naturally dark-skinned without any olive tones or tanning. Some Italians with dark skin appear to have skin color more in the African skin family (albeit lighter) than in the olive skin family.

Do you have photos you could post of different Italians, who in your view, have the following;

(1)olive skin with no tanning
(2)olive skin with tanning
(3)non-olive skin with no tanning
(4)non-olive skin with tannin
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Re: Ethnicity vs. skin tone

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I suspect the early Sicilians in Louisiana had darker skin which became even darker when tanned.

I suspect their natural skin color was more brown than olive, which became even darker brown or ruddy or chestnut with tanning.

I think darker coloring of their hair and eyes contributed to the "swarthy" look, as well as some facial features like prominent noses and fuller lips. Maybe their heritage was more northern African than Greco-Roman
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