Migration patterns

Genetic genealogy is the application of genetics to traditional genealogy. Genetic genealogy involves the use of genealogical DNA testing to determine the level and type of the genetic relationship between individuals.
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MarcuccioV
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Migration patterns

Post by MarcuccioV »

In studying the DNA results for my Italian side, I noticed a pattern. Based on ethnic percentages, it seems that at least a segment of that lineage originally came out of western Asia (Armenia, Turkey, Persia, Lebanon/Syria), picked up some Greek and Cypriot (or it migrated on its own) into Sicily and then splayed out into Southern Italy, finally arriving near Rome.

Based on the percentages of these ethnicities, they cannot be overly deep or I'd think they would have been diluted out by the Italian/Sicilian over multiple generations. Yes, I realize they could come from multiple sources, but still, it seems unlikely at best.

I can't research (at present, at least) prior to the middle of the 19th century, which locks the entire family into one commune in eastern Lazio. My guess is these migrations probably occurred sometime during the 18th century, or else they would not appear as predominant (around 15-20% on average on that side) as they do.

Anyone have a similar migration pattern that their DNA indicates but are not able to trace..?
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darkerhorse
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Re: Migration patterns

Post by darkerhorse »

Are you wondering if your ancestors followed a mass migration?
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Re: Migration patterns

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As opposed to a unique family pattern?
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Re: Migration patterns

Post by darkerhorse »

For example, this is an early migration of Bulgars to Italy.

Do you have DNA matches from there?
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Re: Migration patterns

Post by darkerhorse »

I suppose your family migration could date well before the 19th century if they kept marrying within their Western Asian ancestry group once in Italy?
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Re: Migration patterns

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darkerhorse wrote: 11 May 2022, 19:12 I suppose your family migration could date well before the 19th century if they kept marrying within their Western Asian ancestry group once in Italy?
Not thinking mass migration, more family migration. I would think the easiest place for them to find others from the west Asian group would be Sicily.

Again, without proof I'm just speculating, but the percentage alone tells me it's more likely a recent migration than an early (or mass) migration with intermarriage within that group.

Just another of those things that make you go Hmmmmmm...
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Re: Migration patterns

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Is your logic that a full-blooded Western Asian migrated to Italy, and after two generations of intermarriage, Western Asian DNA was diluted to 25%? That's certainly a possible scenario.

Visually, I'd say Gus's line is your best bet.

Are there any clues in surnames or given names?

For example, in Sicily I was told that it was common for German Jews named Zimmer to change their name to Zimmitti.

In your family tree have you found a Luigi Aliakbar Khan or a Mohammed Petrosini?
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MarcuccioV
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Re: Migration patterns

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darkerhorse wrote: 12 May 2022, 18:30 Is your logic that a full-blooded Western Asian migrated to Italy, and after two generations of intermarriage, Western Asian DNA was diluted to 25%? That's certainly a possible scenario.

Visually, I'd say Gus's line is your best bet.

Are there any clues in surnames or given names?

For example, in Sicily I was told that it was common for German Jews named Zimmer to change their name to Zimmitti.

In your family tree have you found a Luigi Aliakbar Khan or a Mohammed Petrosini?
LOL. "Gus" (as you call him) is the most likely candidate at least for the Lebanese, and perhaps the Greek Cypriot. On my grandmother's side, the farthest back maternal (mtDNA) relative has a married name of Topani (I don't know her maiden name) which is found in Turkey/Iran, which is one of the ethnicities I carry. Her mtDNA haplogroup of U3b2 is primarily found in Sicily (multiple matches) with a couple from Turkey. I could see possibly a mini mass migration from Turkey to Sicily bringing it there.

The only other clue is the family surname of "Mattia" which is derived from the Hebrew word Matit'ya.

Beyond that there is nothing that stands out.
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Re: Migration patterns

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The similar surname "Tapani" is actually more common in Scandinavia than in Italy.

But that might be a function of available record sources.

Do you have ancestors from Finland or Sweden?

Are Italian Mattia and Hebrew Matitya different forms of Matthew?
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Re: Migration patterns

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It's similar to the word for pencil.
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Re: Migration patterns

Post by MarcuccioV »

Topani is found in various places, most commonly Indonesia. It's also found in Italy, India, Turkey, Iran & Croatia. It may have different meanings in the various countries. Since it's a married name it might be a red herring anyway, at least as far as the mtDNA goes. Mattia, Matthew, Matthias all derive from Matit'ya, which is Hebrew for "Gift of God"...

No traceable Scandinavian on any matrix, but if I go back far enough there is a trace in my father's lineage...
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Re: Migration patterns

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Have you looked for civil and church record sources in Turkey etc. for the time period in question?
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Re: Migration patterns

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darkerhorse wrote: 13 May 2022, 18:36 Have you looked for civil and church record sources in Turkey etc. for the time period in question?
I think it would be easier to find that needle in the haystack...
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Re: Migration patterns

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You mentioned that the surname Topani is commonly found in Indonesia. You may recall I thought your father resembled a Filipino (Asian/Spanish mix) in some photos. I also could see some British influence.

It's likely even harder to find records for Indonesia.

Do you have a celebrity relative who could get on Skip Gates' program?
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