Kinship Degree

[darkerhorse]

There are two males named Mauro of the same generation with the same surname born in the same town.

Both of their fathers were named Sebastiano.

One Mauro has one identified sibling - a brother named Alfio - and the other Mauro has no identified siblings.

The way I figure, the closest the two Mauro's can be related through their fathers is as 2nd cousins.

Does the naming convention suggest anything else?

[mjclayton1]

I think a 1st cousin is a possibility. I researched someone's ancestors that came via San Marino. There was not one, but two Domenico's (one being "Domenico", the other being "Domenico Antonio") who shared a father named Andrea. And, yes, Andrea's spouse for each was the same noted mother for the two. The point being, maybe your Sebastiano's were actually brothers? Would be hard to prove, i.e., if you didn't have a "middle name" like I had in making the distinction between the two Domenico brothers.

[darkerhorse]

The two Mauros had different mothers. From available records their age difference is about 5 years, but, of course, that's iffy. The two Mauros could be stepbrothers of one Sebastiano who had two wives and gave two sons the same name, but that's a stretch.

Each Mauro had 7-8 children, and Sebastiano (presumably named for the fathers) is the only name in common.

[mjclayton1]

I see. Yeah, seems as if you have a mystery on your hands there. I defer to others smarter here than me (and there are MANY of those).

[MarcuccioV]

I have found similar in my family (I suppose it happens when there are multiple families with the same surname within the commune) several times -- often the common name (either father or son) is the name of the patron Saint of the town (which makes it the majority name in any case).

In answer to your initial question, aside from the example above, 2nd cousin SHOULD be the closest possible relationship... Based on their closeness in age, I would rule out a cousin-removed (subsequent generations), although I have a 3rd cousin-once removed that has an extra gen between ourselves and our MRCA (as well as being a few years older than I am)...

Hope that isn't too confusing.

[darkerhorse]

I have found similar in my family (I suppose it happens when there are multiple families with the same surname within the commune) several times -- often the common name (either father or son) is the name of the patron Saint of the town (which makes it the majority name in any case).

In answer to your initial question, aside from the example above, 2nd cousin SHOULD be the closest possible relationship... Based on their closeness in age, I would rule out a cousin-removed (subsequent generations), although I have a 3rd cousin-once removed that has an extra gen between ourselves and our MRCA (as well as being a few years older than I am)...

Hope that isn't too confusing.

I hadn't considered "removed cousins" because of apparent closeness in age, but age reporting in records can be iffy at best, as you know. Even with similar ages they can be different generations given the age spans and age at marriage of siblings. For example, one of my father's 1st cousins is a few years younger than I am.

Where I wrote stepbrothers above probably should be half-brothers.

I agree about local naming commonalities, but when there are two father-son combinations in town with the same first and last names (and apparently the same generations), you wonder if they were related. I can't find any kinship, though there might have been inter-marriage downstream which I'd have to double check.

[MarcuccioV]

I agree about local naming commonalities, but when there are two father-son combinations in town with the same first and last names (and apparently the same generations), you wonder if they were related. I can't find any kinship, though there might have been inter-marriage downstream which I'd have to double check.

In one of the cases in my family, fathers/sons were identically named, same surname, but entirely different branches of the family that apparently don't interconnect until before available civil records. There are others as well. I'm only considering the ones who are similar in age (10 years or less difference)...

[darkerhorse]

I agree about local naming commonalities, but when there are two father-son combinations in town with the same first and last names (and apparently the same generations), you wonder if they were related. I can't find any kinship, though there might have been inter-marriage downstream which I'd have to double check.

In one of the cases in my family, fathers/sons were identically named, same surname, but entirely different branches of the family that apparently don't interconnect until before available civil records. There are others as well. I'm only considering the ones who are similar in age (10 years or less difference)...

To clarify, my assumption is that they aren't related. But what you write tempers that assumption. If they are related, they are most likely 2nd cousins or more distant. That would mean their fathers were 1st cousins with the same name which, of course, is expected. So, it's not conclusive.

I think the fact that the two Mauros had several children with only one name in common - Sebastiano - after their fathers is some evidence (though weak) that they are descended from separate families. Maybe that's expected if they were only 2nd cousins or distant.

Another curious fact is that both Mauros had a mother named Lucia, only with different surnames.

.

[MarcuccioV]

Another curious fact is that both Mauros had a mother named Lucia, only with different surnames.

This could again, simply be a coincidence of a popular communal name.

As for related/not related, I suppose it could go either way, but if the surname is the same (excepting extremely common surnames found throughout Italy/Sicily) I'd expect there to be a connection somewhere downstream, however distant...

[darkerhorse]

Siamo d'accordo (or semu d'accordu, if you find your connection to Made Sicilia).

Did you mean upstream?

My immediate concern is deciding on nomenclature in my written narrative, depending upon whether there's kinship. For now, I'm viewing the two Sebastianos as alpha males of unrelated paternal lines, with the caveat that are probably related but without documentation.

Is there an emoji for a spinning head?

[MarcuccioV]

Is there an emoji for a spinning head?

LOL. Yes, I suppose I meant upstream. I'm visualizing a horizontal tree which can trend downward as it progresses rather than upward like a vertical tree.

Now my head is spinning too...

[darkerhorse]

Is there an emoji for a spinning head?

LOL. Yes, I suppose I meant upstream. I'm visualizing a horizontal tree which can trend downward as it progresses rather than upward like a vertical tree.

Now my head is spinning too...

Hah!

Touche'