Last names

[johnnyonthespot]

Are we truly interested in this particular book, there are others, or the numerous studies undertaken by Professors of history going back to the Romans? The Christians? Be it Italian, Scotish or English names??

If that is the case, you can start here, work your way thru hundreds of websites or perhaps contact an Italian professor or two. If Emidio De Felice
is still alive, contact him.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etymology

However, if we are using the subject matter as a way to cause further conflict, debate and undermine the legitimate effort of another member,
then we can close the thread now.
wldspirit

Wldspirit, I am not trying to do any of the above and am truly sorry if my questions are being misinterpreted in that manner.

I am simply saying that I have seen references to the surname dictionary before but cannot ascertain the completeness of the data. And also that I am trying to understand what makes a name "Italian" vs. not really Italian.

How far back does a name have to go in order to be considered Italian? If my surname, spelled exactly as it is on my own birth certificate, can be traced to the Lazio region of Italy as far back as the 1700's (and probably further), is it "Italian"? If not, why not; if so, then why is it not listed in the aforementioned dictionary?

As I said, I am not trying to be difficult, merely to understand...

[wldspirit]

As stated by Misbris, with more specific information members can locate records of interest which may lead to the exact town of origin as well as any variations in the names listed.

Some names are so badly transcribed it makes finding records difficult at best, this is especially true of manifest and census.

However, we have some of the best researchers on the net!! Capable of pulling a rabbit out of a hat.....

Where did the family immigrate to? In which places did they live? The names of Andrew's parents? Siblings? Birth dates? Even a year is helpful. Where did they die? Year?

I did locate this record, but as you can see, it is with a correct spelling only and the birth date is off by two years:


1930 United States Federal Census

Name: Andrew Maccini
Home in 1930: Wellesley, Norfolk, Massachusetts
Age: 4
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1926
Relation to Head of House: Son
Father's Name: Jiovani
Mother's Name: Mary
Race: White

Household Members:
Name Age
Jiovani Maccini 44
Mary Maccini 37
Angelina Maccini 16
Margaret Maccini 14
Peter Maccini 12
Victor Maccini 9
John Maccini 7
Albert Maccini 5
Andrew Maccini 4

wldspirit

[pink67]

I just want to tell something about this subject....
First of all I apologize about my english and Ii hope to explain in a good and comprehensible way what I'm thinking...
It's so difficult in another language...

Mi last name is Nicolini and I know that like:
NICCOLAI
NICOL
NICOLA
NICOLAI
NICOLAIO
NICOLAIS
NICOLAO
NICOLAZZI
NICOLAZZO
NICOLE
NICOLE'
NICOLELLA
NICOLELLO
NICOLET
NICOLETTA
NICOLETTI
NICOLETTO
NICOLI
NICOLIA
NICOLIELLO
NICOLIN
NICOLINI
NICOLINO
NICOLIS
NICOLO
NICOLO'
NICOLOTTI
NICOLUCCI
NICOLUSSI

Tutti questi cognomi derivano, direttamente o attraverso modificazioni ipocoristiche o patronimiche, da variazioni del nome medioevale Nicolaus o Nicolao e dei suoi derivati come Nicola, Nicolò, ecc

from http://www.cognomiitaliani.org/cognomi/cognomi0013i.htm

All these lastnames derive, directly or through modifications, from variations of the medioeval first name Nicolaus or Nicolao and its derived Nicola, Nicolò etc....

So I believe it should be a Local origin surname... but it's an Italian surname....

When I see people asking for their last name (very probably italian) and they read here that their lastname is not of italian origins because the dictionary doesn't list it, I think that they must feel very confused....
Maybe they could think they're not of italian origin!

Laura

[wldspirit]

Johnny:
We have seen an increase in what one would call "backseat moderating",
member efforts and contributions being called into constant question.
A practice we are no longer going to tolerate.
If my reaction is without merit, then I do apologize and am sincerely happy that this is not the case!!

I had several excellent links to the history of surnames in Italy....unfortunately while creating a website on research links, I lost an entire page on links, and wasn't able to retrieve them all.

I do know in researching my own names, that some go back as far as the 1400's, but in researching another, It seems to be a very rare name and is heavily concentrated in Albania. The root of the name shows up in several databases, but nowhere does the actual name itself appear except
the surname distribution and paginebianche.

Edmondo had an excellent article on names here at the site, which I can't find at this moment, it should of been listed under the archives to the left of the screen.
wldspirit

[wldspirit]

Your English is perfect Pink....

And the meaning is very clear!! I know that my surname is Italian, even tho'
it is not listed......because the root name is!!

The study of names is very complicated.....best left to the professors!!
LOL.....
Lee

[pink67]

The study of names is very complicated.....best left to the professors!!
LOL.....
Lee

I totally agree with you Lee, however I recently found that at the end of 2008 it has been published a new Dictionary for Italian surnames...

http://espresso.repubblica.it/dettaglio ... io/2069128

http://ricerca.repubblica.it/repubblica ... talia.html

Here are the dates of the book:
Enzo Caffarelli e Carla Marcato, I cognomi d' Italia Dizionario storico ed etimologico
Utet, 2008 I vol. pagg. L-908; II. vol. 909-1822

In comparison with the Dictionary of Emidio De Felice (first year of publishing 1978, containing only 15.000 italian lastnames) the "new" dictionary contains 60.000 italian surnames...

Laura

[wldspirit]

Wow......for those interested it may be a good investment!

I told our poster that perhaps a manifest or some other record can reveal further clues for his research.....will be interesting to see what you find when he responds with further information!!

Lee

[BillieDeKid]

Thanks for the links Laura. Do you know if the dictionary will be available in bookstores and if there will be an English printed version?

Thanks
Elizabeth

[misbris]

There are at least 50 people on the Ellis Island site with the name Maccini.

http://ellisisland.jewishgen.org/databa ... ECTION=asc

So the name does exist. There is no Andrew listed, but he is not the immigrant. If we knew where he settled, it might make the search easier. Many Maccini came from Pelligrino/i and are listed as Northern Italian. However, I am not sure where this town is. If we can focus on the poster's original question, (and if the poster can give us a little more information) we might be able to find the Maccini we are looking for.

[wldspirit]

The son of the immigrant was Andrew, if I remember well, there wasn't to many Andrew's listed at ancestry, but the name of both parents would allow for some solid research...
wldspirit

[BillieDeKid]

Hi Mary Jo,

Biff gave me this link a long time ago for Italian communes - hope this helps out. Two possibilities for Pelligrino.

http://www.italyworldclub.com/8000_italian_communes/

Pellegrino Parmense, province: Parma - region: Emilia Romagna

Pellegrino, province:Firenze (Florence) - region: Tuscany

The LDS has films for both.

[misbris]

Hi Elizabeth,


I was thrown off by the earlier discussion and didn't check my usual sources. The name appears in at least 35 towns in northern Italy.

http://www.gens.labo.net/en/cognomi/genera.html

[pink67]

i only know my grandfathers name Andrew Maccini year of birth i think 1924 but i think his dad was an immigrant not him.

if this is the correct 1930 census for the Maccini Family:

From Ancestry.com:

1930 United States Federal Census
about Jiovani Maccini
Name: Jiovani Maccini
Home in 1930: Wellesley, Norfolk, Massachusetts
Age: 44
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1886
Birthplace: Italy
Relation to Head of House: Head
Spouse's Name: Mary
Race: White
Occupation:

Education:

Military service:

Rent/home value:

Age at first marriage:

Parents' birthplace: View Image
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Jiovani Maccini 44 head, born in IT, year of immigr. 1912
Mary Maccini 37 wife, born in IT, year of immigr. 1912
Angelina Maccini 16 daughter, born in MA
Margaret Maccini 14 daughter, born in MA
Peter Maccini 12 son, born in MA
Victor Maccini 9 son, born in MA
John Maccini 7 son, born in MA
Albert Maccini 5 son, born in MA
Andrew Maccini 4 son, born in MA

so, Giovanni and Maria's place of origin was Pellegrino Parmense, Parma Province, Emilia Romagna region.

Here is 1920 census:

1920 United States Federal Census
about Grovami MacCinni
Name: Grovami MacCinni
[Giovinni MacCinni]
Home in 1920: Wellesley, Norfolk, Massachusetts
Age: 35 years
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1885
Birthplace: Italy
Relation to Head of House: Head
Spouse's Name: Maria
Father's Birth Place: Italy
Mother's Birth Place: Italy
Marital Status: Married
Race: White
Sex: Male
Home owned: Rent
Year of Immigration: 1912
Able to read: No
Able to Write: No
Image: 512
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Grovami MacCinni 35
Maria MacCinni 28
Angiolina MacCinni 7
Domerico MacCinni 4 1/12
Peter MacCinni 2 6/12

Here is Giovanni and Maria's arrival manifest in 1912:

New York Passenger Lists, 1820-1957
about Giovanni Maccini
Name: Giovanni Maccini
Arrival Date: 30 Jun 1912
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1887
Age: 25
Gender: Male
Port of Departure: Cherbourg, France
Ethnicity/Race­/Nationality: Italian (North) (Italian)
Ship Name: Philadelphia
Search Ship Database: Search the Philadelphia in the 'Passenger Ships and Images' database
Port of Arrival: New York, New York
Nativity: Italy
Line: 27
Microfilm Serial: T715
Microfilm Roll: T715_1890
Birth Location: Italy
Birth Location Other: pellegrino
Page Number: 160

page 1:
[img=http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/9207/m ... rri.th.jpg]

page 2:
[img=http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/8530/m ... alp.th.jpg]

them both were born in Pellegrino Parmense, Giovanni was living in Italy his father Pietro and Mary was living in Italy her father Cornani? Gi. (Giovanni?)

Hope this is the right family...

Laura

[pink67]

The Book I was referring to, is this (it's a 4 books work: 2 books for the first names and two books for the lastnames Total 3.200 pages):

http://cultura.utet.it/cultura/novita/index.jsp?id=2055

it seems it's very expensive:

http://www.libroco.it/cgi-bin/dettaglio ... &lingua=en


Laura

Edit:

On this site they are **SPAM** only the two books regarding lastnames:
http://www.ibs.it/code/9788802080697/zz ... i-vol.html

But it's very expensive too...
The version is only in Italian...

[PeterTimber]

Dear Laura thanks for the information about the extended Italian surname dictionary. I am curious if the dictionary will contain those Italian names that are local in Origin stemming from nicknames,occupations etc in small towns or areas of Italy which normally are not included in the current issue of my resource surname dictionary by Emidio De Felice. Its almost an art form to determine the roots of these local surnames since they tended to vary, be altered, derived and abbreviated as the surnames listed in the Italian surname Dictionary but who have traceable historic or religous roots. =Peter=