Finding birth certificate

[deigo1]

I was trying to find the birth certificate of Emil Sartore. The only specific information I have on the town is from the WW2 registration card that lists place of birth as Venice? born 3-27-1912. He is the son of Francesco Sartore (San Martino di Lupari) and Carolina Vanzo (Trevignano), which are located in that general area. All the later US census data shows he was born in Italy (no specific town). The two older siblings were born in Nova Scotia, Canada as Francesco was doing mining in that area, but it seems as though they returned to Italy at least briefly before coming to the US. The only other piece of information I can see is the family stopped in Canada in May of 1912 (I believe on the way to the US), and list a child that looks to be Attilio as 1 month old born in Italy, which I'm assuming would be him.

Thanks D.

[suanj]

Hi, a Carolina Vanzo born in Trevignano, went in Canada to join her husband Genesio Duranto.
https://heritage.statueofliberty.org/sh ... cGciOw==/1
on 1911 census of Canada well Francesco Sartore single,was boarder in the house of Genesio Duranto
Name Francesco Sartore
Sex Male
Event Date 1911
Event Place Cape Breton South Sub-Districts 1-11, Nova Scotia, Canada
Sub-District Number 1-11
Birth Date Jun 1884
Birthplace Italy
Marital Status Single
Religion R Catholic
Relationship to Head of Household Boarder
Event Type Census
https://www.familysearch.org/dz/v1/dgs: ... ?width=400
but by ship's manifest of 1912, the daughter (Nalia or Nadia) and the son, Attilio, seems born In Trevignano, Treviso, Veneto, IT....

but online just the civil records on Napoleon era, so until 1815... To say Venice means probably the capital of Veneto region, but by ship's manifest Attilio was born in Trevignano..

[deigo1]

This is really fascinating...so I have to assume that Duranto died, and Frank married Carolina and / or adopted the children. The first two born children as we have known them are Italia and Ida born in 1909 and 1910, which align to the names in the census and likely why I have never found the birth certificates because the surname was different. Given that Duranto was alive in June of 1911 (based on the census), that makes me wonder with a March 1912, birthday would this have possibly been Duranto's son? I've never found the marriage document of Frank and Carolina (although Trevignano said they did not have his (Frank) name in their marital records, but also didn't share (nor did I ask) about a different marriage of Carolina).

Thank you,
D.

[deigo1]

Do you think the surname could be Duranti ? When I search the surname Duranto it doesn't appear to be a very common Italian Surname. Duranti appears to have a some pockets in the same area Carolina was from.

http://www.gens.info/italia/it/turismo- ... hThDejMKUl

Thanks D!

[suanj]

the right italian spelling is DURANTE ( Duranto is mispelled in Canada)
regards,
suanj

[suanj]

Genesio Durante was born probably in Trevignano. On 1909 a Adriano Durante, father Stefano in Trevignano going in Canada to join to Genesio Durante..
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cc=1368704
A Genesio Durante father Stefano made some trip also, his name is spelled Geneso durante, born on 1883, maybe Dec, in Treviso ( no, right: Trevignano Treviso) and o 1916 going to Stella Durante his sister in Michigan...

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... AZCNP-ZFZM
I believe that he remarried in USA...
Also he had two brothers surely, Adriano ( imm, in Canada) born on 1880 and Alberto born on 1878, and the sister Stella( imm. in Michigan USA)... the their prents was Stefano Durante and Regina Tosello...
suanj

[deigo1]

Thank you so much for this help. With that name, I was able to locate I believe the second daughter's birth below, this is in one day of what our family knows her birthday as. The Feb. 1909 trip of Genesio 's Father and brother could make sense, as the first born had a birthday of Jan. 1909. If Genesio re-married, I would assume that means the record from my original post that Frank and Carolina are the parents.

So two asks for the commune in Trevignano:

1. A marriage certificate of Genesio Durante to Carolina Vanzo in the range of 1905 -1907, she was only 21 in 1907 when she went to Canada, so I can't think the marriage was much earlier?
2. (Attilio) Emil Sartore born Carolina Vanzo and Francesco Sartore in 1913.

[suanj]

It is a strange story... I don't believe that Frank and Carolina married in Italy, because she was no widow and Genesio was alive... so the children with Sartore name on ship's manifest cannot be right, just the children was listed under Sartore surname on the ships manifest of Francesco... for bad luck no Trevignano civil records online....otherwise we would have had every answer ....

[deigo1]

This all makes sense given the "situation", on not finding an Italian marriage. I have reviewed all the marriage records up until 1910 for San Martino Di Lupari where Frank is from and there are no marriages for him or anything noted on his birth certificate. Most of his siblings married there and it's clearly noted on their birth certificates. Unfortunately, the online records stop in 1910 for that commune. That commune has been unresponsive thus far to my record request for Frank's parents from many weeks ago so probably no fast help there anyway. Trevignano had already responded from a prior request that Francesco Sartore is not in their marital records.



I'm still pending Frank's US naturalization documentation, which normally will list the place of marriage. The official naturalization took place in 1917 in Michigan. I now question if they were married at all or if perhaps they did get married in the US. Carolina died in late 1919 from Influenza in the US.

I did start with a query to Trevignano to request the marriage record of Carolina to Genesio. I will post back once I have it.

Thanks again!
D.

[suanj]

I believe that Frank Sartore never married in Italy to Carolina Canzo. It was impossible to marry again if already married like Carolina. No divorce in Italy at this time. So they was lovers. Probaby Attilio was tbe biological son of Frank. When the family (..) went in USA, maybe the couple madried in USA, without Carolina to be called bigamist. Bexause in Italy she was the wife of Genesio Durante, as a well Genesio Durante don't resulting bigamist, being married to Teresa Marietta in USA....

I believe that maybe Attilio was the son of Frank(Francesco).. When a commune don't reply, is because the reply however means negative reply..

[deigo1]

@suanj

Trevignano responded ...with the marriage certificate of Carolina to Genesio as you had assumed. The marriage happened in Dec. 1906, which aligns with her joining her husband in 1907 on the manifest you had found.

I did receive the naturalization information for Frank since that last post as well, unfortunately the older forms only required you to list your spouse, and did not include the date and place of marriage. The part that it did confirm was he listed that Emil (assumed Attilio) was born in Musano (village inside the Trevignano commune).

Given the marriage situation how do you think the name / entry would be captured in the commune? I was trying to think through the ask for the birth certificate, would he be listed as a Sartore?

Thanks!
D.

[suanj]

Two cases may have occurred:
-or Attilio was declared a civil records office by Carolina as the son of Genesio and therefore had the surname Durante as his little sister
-or Attilio was declared exclusively by Frank and had the surname Sartore. That is, Frank declared the child to be her son and the son of a woman who "does not allow her to be named" but who is neither her close relative, nor her sister-in-law or anything similar

To find out more, you should first explain the case to the Registry Office and what he finds releases as a certificate ... because one thing is certain, that the couple was not and could not be a married couple, that the first child maybe it was from Genesio, I don't know, but in any case it was with the surname Durante, the second, Attilio, was probably Frank's. Of course the couple thought this and certainly knew that it was so. Then who has declared it to the civil records office cannot be known, there is nothing online that can help us, but the cases are the two that I have described to you.
best regards,
suanj

[deigo1]

Following up, I had explained the situation in my request to the commune about the possible father's and different first name /surnames. They didn't provide really any elaboration other than the below... Perhaps they didn't register the birth if the commune looked at all of the possibilities.

"following your request received at our offices we inform you that, after having carried out the searches in the personal and marital registers of our Municipality, there is NO SARTORE EMILIO born the 27/03/1912 of Francesco and Vanzo Carolina. "

Thank you for your help,
D.

[suanj]

the child was no the biologic son of Frank.... clearly

[deigo1]

Yes, they are clear no Sartore in the registry. While this is all fascinating for me, I'm sure the commune focal isn't as interested....do you think the last effort would be to ask them for Attilio Durante born on that date?

Thank you,
D.