Using DNA Matches

[darkerhorse]

How have DNA matches helped you discover more about the history of your ethnicities and ancestral places of origin than you had learned from your own DNA test results?

I'm not so interested in connecting with living relatives but I suspect DNA matches may help in understanding your own family history.

[greglam]

With limited and notable exceptions, my DNA matches on Ancestry have been of very little utility. The matches that could prove most helpful, have kept their trees private and have been entirely unresponsive to inquiries.

What's the point of being on a genealogy site if you aren't going to respond or be of assistance even to 2nd and 3rd cousin matches?

Very frustrating.

[MarcuccioV]

I agree with greglam about the private trees (on any matrix), but it HAS enlightened me in other research where the paper trail has been weak or short.

And of course, I'd have never found my illegitimate first cousin (nor would she have learned her origins) without it.

Like almost anything else, it's a 2-edged sword. You can get cut either way...

[MarcuccioV]

So I'm not sure if this answers the original question or not -- but...

Ancestry recently updated their results again. I now indicate about 7% Aegean Islands & Cyprus on the Italian side (my cousin Debbie also has a small percentage of Greece/Albania which I obviously have at a level below the cutoff threshold).

Now if I use simple math (as innaccurate as it is), that would equate to approximately 15% of Greek ethnicity from my mom and approx 30% from my grandparents (one, the other, or both).

I have tied only one DNA match definitively by paper trail (3rd cousin once-removed in England) to my grandfather's family. He also indicates both Aegean Islands and Greece/Albania in his ethnic makeup, leading me to believe the Greek (or most of it) probably comes through my grandfather, who could have easily been mistaken for Greek.

Therefore, I have used the DNA match to try to isolate which grandparent passed on this particular ethnicity. How accurate it is would be the lingering question. How it got up to Rome would be another mystery. Did it come directly from Greece..? From Greek-heavy populations in Sicily..? I may never know.

Seems with every door that is unlocked, it only leads to ten more locked ones. And so it goes...

[darkerhorse]

That's the kind of application which would add some value.

Is it your assumption that your family landed in Rome as part of a migration flow, or came as an individual family move?

For example, there was a migration flow north from Sicily in WWII. I know that's not your time period, but are you looking for such historical patterns of geographic migration?

Also, is there a haplogroup that coincides with that family line which you can trace?

Finally, it's nice to see someone struggling hard for Sicilian roots!

I recently discovered that Berbers settled my ancestral town (preceding my paper trail), so it'd be interesting to see if I had any such DNA ancestry which might account for the swarthiness in some of my family from Sicily. The given name "Mauro" is prominent.

[MarcuccioV]

That's the kind of application which would add some value.

Is it your assumption that your family landed in Rome as part of a migration flow, or came as an individual family move?

For example, there was a migration flow north from Sicily in WWII. I know that's not your time period, but are you looking for such historical patterns of geographic migration?

Also, is there a haplogroup that coincides with that family line which you can trace?

Finally, it's nice to see someone struggling hard for Sicilian roots!

I recently discovered that Berbers settled my ancestral town (preceding my paper trail), so it'd be interesting to see if I had any such DNA ancestry which might account for the swarthiness in some of my family from Sicily. The given name "Mauro" is prominent.

I'm thinking more of a micro-migration flow, perhaps several families -- since I find Grecian from my grandfather (using the above example) & Sicilian from my grandmother (from the mtDNA), it would appear that both families went north and settled in the same area (I doubt this was coincidental, but I suppose anything is possible). Also it seems the families kept intermarrying which might indicate a family history going back generations to another locale.

It's also wholly possible that since both my grandparents have TWO surnames in common (just from the paper trail I have) that one (or both) of those common surnames carries the island blood (although my grandmother's mtDNA doesn't come from either of those surnames). I have no idea what my grandfather's haplotype was...

And yes, I'm still seeking the elusive Sicilian thread that I know is there but has yet to be uncovered...

[MarcuccioV]

Using a line of thought you hinted at, I performed an experiment. On a site which shows surname popularity by Italian region (utilizing current census info) I took all 16 surnames from my grandfather's tree (that start & end by paper trail in his hometown) & checked them for Sicily -- ALL but 5 exist there (again, by current info). Some very common and spread through many, many communes, and others rare and existing in only 1 or 2. Not surprisingly, my grandfather's surname was the most popular and widespread of them all.

I don't think I can infer with confidence that it indicates his namesake paternal line were among the migrants from Sicily, but it does offer up a tantalizing hint. There are far too many towns & records to try to trace anything down, even if searching only a single surname. Besides, there's no way to know if (or how many) stops they made along the way north or over how many generations.

I suppose it couldn't be too far removed or the Greek may have been washed out; unless, as is possible, there were multiple migratory families that kept interbreeding with a limited amount of outside DNA...

[darkerhorse]

I've done something similar on Ancestry.com using surnames (exact spelling and spelling variations one at a time) for total records, drilling down by record location and by date, noting record distributions and counts.

As you know, it's a mixed bag as to how accurate or representative the results are.

[darkerhorse]

In my method, record coverage by geography is an obvious source of bias. The more records loaded for a given place the more likely you'll find a surname from there.

[MarcuccioV]

In my method, record coverage by geography is an obvious source of bias. The more records loaded for a given place the more likely you'll find a surname from there.

I can't argue that point. I just wish I could connect the dots from ANY of those surnames...

[MarcuccioV]

Using the "biased" method of surnames-by-geography, I found something interesting (I say 'interesting' as it could very well mean nothing).

My 2GGf on my grandfather's direct paternal line was named Giacomo. This was an extremely rare given name for the commune, based on the civil records I have researched. Although I have no paper trail, I believe he was named for HIS grandfather (my 4GGf).

The patron Saint of the commune was St Aloysius of Gonzaga (Luigi), which was Giacomo's father's name (documented). Giacomo's son was Vito, another rare name in the commune.

This got me thinking perhaps these were common names in another place of origin -- I researched my grandfather's surname in Sicily & it turned out to be most populous in Caltagirone (Catania). To my surprise (not really), Caltagirone's patron Saint is St James the Greater (Giacomo) and it is one of the most common first names (bot male and the female "Giacoma") in the commune.

Research in Caltagirone records has thus far been inconclusive, but it is, as I said, "interesting"...

[darkerhorse]

What was his surname?

[MarcuccioV]

What was his surname?

Mattia. In doing just a random scan in Catalgirone, I found several Giacomo AND Giacoma Mattia's...

BTW, in checking a few spouse surnames I found an interesting one in a DNA match's tree -- Petruzziello. I know you have Pitruzzello in yours...

[MarcuccioV]

As an aside, Caltagirone was nearly destroyed in an earthquake in 1693. Although this seems early, it's possible I suppose, it spurned a flight north. There are also pockets of Mattia's near Bari in Puglia and Avellino in Campania, which could have been primary destinations on the way north. My DNA also has ties to both of those areas.

It's also now common in central Lazio, but in the early years of civic records was limited to only a few families and has now grown in popularity as the decades have progressed, indicating it being relatively short-lived in the area prior to those records.

Putting all the pieces of these various factors together seems to fit, but the puzzle is still far from complete...

[darkerhorse]

This is my method for records from the 1800s, exact spelling of surname. Too few records before 1800. The records from Sicilia are from Agrigento and Palermo. Again, my method is biased by differences in geographic reporting and coverage:

1800s
Europe
Italy
Abruzzo
344
Puglia
129
Campania
42
Sicilia
33
Piemonte
24
Lazio
8
Lombardia
2
Molise
2
Liguria
1
Veneto
1