translations!

[williamsburger]

Good news! I spoke to someone in the Italian Department at my local university, who put me in contact with an Italian lawyer living in my area who is willing to provide translations of my documents for a very reasonable fee.

As most of my paperwork comes from NYC, each document consists of the following:
1. the certificate itself
2. a Letter of Exemplification, provided by the Department of Health and Mental Hygiene
3. a certification from the New York County Clerk
4. the apostille from the New York State Department of State

Obviously, having all four components of this document translated would increase the cost significantly, but I am willing to do so if it is required. Could anyone tell me whether that is necessary, or if the consulate will only ask for a translation of the certificate itself?

Thanks!

[johnnyonthespot]

.

Only the actual certificate. I have never heard of anyone being asked to provide translatations of the other items mentioned.

[grandpa77]

I'm Curious. Where does the translation go ? Does it get affixed within the round copper ring that affixes the document to the apostille certificate or is it just loose ?

Also I hear people saying that some out of state certificates are getting rejected at their appointments because the consulate official is asking for an additional verification stamp or something like that from the consulate in the state the document is from . I've never heard of this additional verification before I joined this group. What is this additional consulate verification about and what is it called and how can I get it for my outside of the state documents? ?

[johnnyonthespot]

Translations can be provided as "loose" documents.

They are required for each document which will ultimately be registered in the ancestral comune in Italy; typically the birth and marriage certificates of each person in the direct lineage of the applicant plus the applicant him/herself.

In recent years, we began to hear that many consulates were sending documents which originated in another consular jurisdiction to that remote consulate for verification. The idea seemed to be that the New York consulate, for example, had no way of knowing if a document supposedly from Oshkosh, Wisconsin was legitimate, so they sent the certificate to the Chicago consulate for review.

Recently, there have been a few cases (in New York, I believe) where the applicant's consulate is placing this additional burden directly on the applicant. In my opinion, this may not be such a bad thing as these inter-consulate dealings have often been blamed for long, multi-month, delays in processing of applications.

[grandpa77]

What is the additional burden called ? Additional Consulate Verification for out of state certificates? I've never heard of this until this forum.

[johnnyonthespot]

Until I see something formal from one or more consulates, this is the best I can offer: http://www.italiangenealogy.com/forum/topic22115.html

[grandpa77]

This is what I got from another post:

"She also wanted all of the above documents that were issued in NY to go to the NYC consulate for a verification stamp"

What the heck is a verification stamp. I have never heard of this stamp!

[williamsburger]

What the heck is a verification stamp. I have never heard of this stamp!

Grandpa77, it looks like Sforza has more information about this step in the process in his/her post about his/her recent visit to the Newark consulate...You may want to check there.

[sforza]

It's also referred to as "legalization" and "authentication." Apostilles are just another state-issued document, and as the official at the Newark consulate put it, "the state would put an Apostille on a recipe if it had the right signature." So it's about one consulate wanting verification from another consulate that documents originating in that latter consulate's jurisdiction are kosher. What's surprising about my case is that the Newark Consulate, which presumably sees tons of docs and apostilles from NY, needs (additional) authentication from the NY consulate. Again, my case might be an anomaly, as my translations were not accepted by Newark. So it may be that it's the translations,and not simply the certs themselves, that are in need of consular authentication.

[grandpa77]

Oh, They want the document LEGALIZED. No big deal, that's simple and fast. Authentication is little different than Legalization but for our purposes here it's the same and the procedure is the same.

But I'm curious. So they not only want an Apostille on a document but they also want that same document Legalized ? That's nuts because you will then have 1 document with about 6 pages attached to it. Is that true ? They want it apostilled and legalized ?


Well I want to tell you all something. Consulates will also legalize your Recipe if you pay the fee. I've had the strangest documents legalized and it's always less red tape then an apostille.

Legalization / Authentication is by far much easier and faster then Apostille. This is no big deal and I would rather Legalize a document than Apostille as it's much faster and only one step. With Apostille it's several steps, more expensive and takes more time.

Thanks for answering my question everyone.

[jennabet]

No it's not true that they all want it apostilled AND legalized. In Sforza's case, I'm sure it's because his translations were not acceptable. At one time, we thought of taking our documents to Italy and applying there so I had to send all of my translations to our consulate to be authorized for use in Italy. They all came back with an authorization stamp.

But if you're not applying in Italy, this should not be necessary. And it seems only the consulates in the jurisdictions that have the biggest Italian-American communities may require this -- probably because some of the Italians who immigrated there back in the day were into nefarious types of business (I don't think I have to elaborate). Apparently with specific cases, those consulates are being overly cautious because of fraud.

[johnnyonthespot]

We know that several years ago it was discovered that at least a few jure sanguinis applications were approved based upon one or more forged or altered documents. A memorandum was sent to all stato civile offices and consulates warning them to take the utmost care in the future. There is a copy of said memo posted here somewhere; I know because I posted it.

Since then, it seems that the consulates have been slowly but surely adding extra levels of security to the process. Sending documents to other consulates for verification appears to be one of those changes.

[jennabet]

+1 for Jennabet. LOL.

[johnnyonthespot]

+1 for Jennabet. LOL.

However, I am almost certain these cases were from somewhere in South America - possibly Brazil.

[johnnyonthespot]

.

The memorandum itself was previously posted here: http://www.italiangenealogy.com/forum/t ... ml#p129462