Montreal Consulate Jure Sanguinis requirememts

[LauraNonCe]

Hello. I made another thread about the same problem but perhaps someone with direct experience with this consulate can help.

My father and I want to claim our Italian citizenship. My grandfather came to Montreal, Canada in the 50s but only became a naturalized citizen (along with my Grandmother) in 1971. At the time of my fathers birth, they were both Italian citizens. My dad was 14 when they became naturalized but he is BORN IN CANADA.

The consulate in Montreal is asking for a lot more than other consulates Ive looked at. They want the standard birth cirtificate and old Italian passport but theyre also asking for proof that my grandfather LIVED and had a residency in Italy, and wasnt just born there. They also want Foglio di sbarco which I believe is a paper an immirgant recieved when coming off the boat in Canada. My dad has told me my grandparents needed these documents when applying for citizenship but Im worried theyve lost those documents. I know he still has his passport, birth certificate and marriage certificate but I dont know if itll be enough, especially with wjat theyre asking.

Anyone have experience with this consulate and what you did? Thanks.

[sforza]

I would also check out the site italiancitizenship.freeforums.org
It has a page dedicated to individual consulates and their requirements. And a homepage keyword search for "Montreal" yielded several results pertaining to the Italian Consulate in Montreal.

[LauraNonCe]

Arg, just called my grandfather.. he doesn't know where any of his documents is :S Now I really don't know what to do. My dad said you can get all the documents from his comune but I don't even know where to begin with that!

[LauraNonCe]

Just a little update:

Turns out we're related to the mayor of our town So my dad is going to send in an email to the comune or if anything call them to gain my grandfather's birth certificate, certificate attesting to his citizenship before arriving in Canada, and his "certificato storico di residenza"; all issued by the comune

Two problems however.

1) The foglio di sbarco (immigrant paper issued to him when he arrived in Canada). This is a Canadian document so I'll need to contact someone in Canada for it but I do not know who. He arrived in the 50's so hopefully they still have these documents.

2) It asks that "all foreign documents must be submitted in original" Does foreign documents mean Italian documents? Canadian documents? Would documents sent from Italy be considered foreign? Because I HIGHLY doubt the comune in Italy has his ORIGINAL birth certificate...

[johnnyonthespot]

I am not familiar with #1 but as to #2, yes, the comune most certainly has the original birth and marriage acts.

However, what the consulate means is that you must submit a properly signed and stamped document, not a photocopy of same. So, when your father requests these, the comune will refer to the original handwritten records, create a handwritten or computer printed extract (an "Estratto"), and sign and apply the comune's official stamp. You must submit this "original" document.

[LauraNonCe]

Oh okay, good to know. Geez I didn't know it would take this much work :S

[LauraNonCe]

Update!

So I spoke to my maternal grandfather and he says he has his old Italian passport, his certificate he received when he naturalized, his marriage certificate, and according to my aunt, the folgio di sbarco (landing papers) are stapled onto the back of the old Italian passport. All we need is a proof of residence which can easily be attained from a place in Montreal which find the paper for you! I'm so pumped right now this is actually gonna become a reality! My only worry is he won't have that landing paper; since he landed in New York and perhaps things work differently there...

[johnnyonthespot]

I can't think of any equivalent record on the US side other than a certified copy of the passenger manifest. I have no idea if this would help or hinder your application in Montreal, but the record itself can be obtained fairly easily and at reasonable cost from the US National Archives.

To place a document order, start here https://eservices.archives.gov/orderonl ... chives.gov and go ahead and create an account on the right. Next, click "Order Reproductions" -> "Immigration and Naturalization Records" -> "Passenger Arrival Record (NATF 81)".

If you don't already know the exact details of your ancestor's entry into New York, try searching at Ancestry . com or ellisisland.org, or post his info (full name, year of birth, year of arrival if you know it) and one of us will see what we can find.

[LauraNonCe]

He's already listed at Ancestry.com but you have to get a subscription to gain info -.-

He's not listed on Ellisiland.org since 1) he came in the 50's and 2) he said he landed in Brooklyn and not Ellis Island :S I'm first going to see if this paper is indeed stapled to the back of his passport and if not I guess I'll have to ask for that document.. which I hope truly is reasonable

[LauraNonCe]

My grandfather has all the necessary documents except the proof of residence, which we can get. But now my question is, once my mother receives her Italian citizenship, how will I apply for it? Am I going to have to apply through jure sanguinis or can I directly apply for one from my mother? Sorry for all the questions, it's just this damn Montreal consulate is so vague and hardly answers any questions :l

[johnnyonthespot]

Laura,

Consulates handles these cases in a couple of different ways:

1) Worst case, you have to file your own jure sanguinis application. This is really not so bad however, as all you would need to provide is your own certified/translated/apostilled birth certificate (plus marriage, if applicable) and a copy of your mother's citizenship recognition letter from the consulate or a copy of her Italian Certificato di Nascita (birth certificate; from her ancestral comune). Application would be a sure thing and could be processed very quickly, if the consulate is so inclined.

2) Alternately, many consulates would permit your mother to simply register your birth even though it (presumably) occurred some years ago. According to the Montreal consulate's web site, the process is:

NASCITA

Registrazione della nascita del figlio di un cittadino italiano all’estero:

i figli di cittadini entrambi italiani o di almeno uno dei due genitori con cittadinanza italiana, anche se nati all’estero ed eventualmente in possesso di un’altra cittadinanza, sono cittadini italiani. Pertanto la loro nascita deve essere registrata in Italia.

Per effettuare la comunicazione di una nascita, bisogna presentarsi all’Ufficio Consolare con i seguenti documenti:

atto di nascita, emesso dal competente Ufficio di Stato Civile del Paese in cui si risiede, munito di traduzione in italiano, effettuata da un traduttore ufficiale, e legalizzato presso il Ministero degli Esteri straniero (per tutti quei Paesi che hanno aderito alla Convenzione dell’Aja del ‘61);

documentazione comprovante la cittadinanza italiana di almeno uno dei genitori (carta d’identità, passaporto italiano o certificato di cittadinanza italiana).

http://www.consginevra.esteri.it/Consol ... to_civile/

Again, very straightforward; the NYC consulate processes these in a matter of days.

3) If you are still a minor child residing with your mother, she can include your birth certificate with her own application.

[LauraNonCe]

This is all very very good but, that consulate info on birth comes from Switzerland Maybe it doesn't apply to the Montreal consulate? And I would be considered Italian by birth even if my mother, in theory, !
"naturalized" ?

[LauraNonCe]

http://www.consmontreal.esteri.it/Conso ... ti/FAQ.htm

I read the Stato Civile and caught something interesting. " La registrazione di nascita in Consolato deve essere
richiesta al piu presto dai/i genitore/i italiano/i durante la minore età del figlio"

Maybe my Italian is rusty but Im pretty sure this means the son or daughter of the Italian citizen must be registered while they're still a minor. And I'm not a minor..

[johnnyonthespot]

This is all very very good but, that consulate info on birth comes from Switzerland Maybe it doesn't apply to the Montreal consulate?

I have no idea how I picked up that Switzerland link! Here is the correct link; the information is the same regardless: http://www.consmontreal.esteri.it/Conso ... to_civile/

And I would be considered Italian by birth even if my mother, in theory, !"naturalized" ?

This is something new to your story. Did your mother naturalize? If so, what year? Before or after your birth? Before or after you reached the age of majority?

[johnnyonthespot]

http://www.consmontreal.esteri.it/Conso ... ti/FAQ.htm

I read the Stato Civile and caught something interesting. " La registrazione di nascita in Consolato deve essere
richiesta al piu presto dai/i genitore/i italiano/i durante la minore età del figlio"

Maybe my Italian is rusty but Im pretty sure this means the son or daughter of the Italian citizen must be registered while they're still a minor. And I'm not a minor..

As I said, consulates vary somewhat on this. I can tell you that I registered my then 23 year-old son's birth in this manner with the New York City consulate and he received a letter of recognition less than one week later.

Personally, I would have your mother try the birth registration route anyway. Worst case, the consulate sends it back to her and tells you to take the longer route instead. As a general comment, the consulates have lots of stuff on their web sites which is outdated or not followed for one reason or another.