Paolo Giorgi Revisited - Bad News

[argentuban]

It looks as there there is no registration of birth, and the attorney says that even if we could find the marriage certificate that shows children born before marriage, it would not be accepted in court.

Basically my only option is to sue that the 1948 law is discriminatory and go through my grandmother's side, which I have evidence of. I don't see that being feasible. I am bummed. Looks like I am at the end of the road.

Thanks to everyone who helped.

[carubia]

Why is a 1948 court case not feasible? The cost?

[paola52]

Sure there is no record of his birth? Have you already had negative answers from the comune of Vagli, the two parishes and the diocese?

[argentuban]

Carubia: cost, duration, likelihood of success.

Paola52: no dice on what I know. Will dig to make sure all has been exhausted.

Horribly depressed.

[carubia]

I can understand being concerned by the cost, by why would the duration deter you? Even if you apply through a consulate it would take a while, and is Italian citizenship really worthless to you if you can't obtain it within a year?

Your likelihood of success is probably excellent if you have an ordinary 1948 case? I haven't heard of one of them failing.

[argentuban]

My mother became a US citizen in the 1980s (after I had been born), which could complicate things. I also am a dual citizen by birth of the United States and Argentina already.

If you have any record of 1948 cases succeeding, please let me know. Frame of reference for duration of case, etc...thanks.

[carubia]

So were you born in the US with Argentinian citizenship jure sanguinis? If your father was not Italian, then you probably would've lost your Italian citizenship when your mother naturalized.

Did your mother naturalize before or after April 1983?

Does your father have Italian ancestry? Is Paolo Giorgi his ancestor?

[argentuban]

OK, it's a bit confusing (and kinda funny). My mother's grandfathers were brothers who married Argentinean sisters. Her mom was born to Angelo Giorgi and Irene Romero. Here dad (my grandfather) was born to Paolo Giorgi and Pastora Romero.

Accordingly, only her father (my grandfather) could have passed on Italian ancestry to my mother because she was born in 44 (before 48). Otherwise we could go through my grandmother, as we (apparently) have all of the paperwork for Angelo.

My mom naturalized after 83, I was born in 78 in Buenos Aires. My father was a US citizen at the time of my birth, so I became a US and Argentinean citizen upon birth.

I would have to reaffirm my Italian citizenship by living in Italy because of my mom's naturalization in any instance, but that would be a month or two of residence and paperwork according to the lawyer. The issue is we do not have proof of Paolo Giorgi's birth in Italy, though all evidence shows he was Italian (his marriage certificate in Argentina, his death certificate, census report in Argentina, etc.).

[carubia]

OK, after reviewing some old posts, now I think I understand your case. You were Italian by birth from your mother, but neither of you were ever registered as Italian citizens. You and your mother lost Italian citizenship when she naturalized in the 1980s (you lost citizenship because you already possessed another jure sanguinis citizenship - that of the US). Now you're trying to reacquire citizenship by establishing residence in Italy.

Your case is much worse than perhaps you realize, even if the proof of your mother's former Italian citizenship were straightforward. The problem is that a consulate will probably not allow you to apply for citizenship reacquisition, because you don't have a birth cert from Italy. We've seen both the SF and LA consulates state that they would not accept such an application under identical circumstances. Hopefully you can find a consulate who would process your claim.

If you are not permitted to state your intention to reacquire at a consulate before you move to Italy, you need to reside there much longer, a full year, after establishing residence. Then you could claim that you have reacquired citizenship, but you might have to go to court to get the comune to accept that. Alternatively, you could file suit now to try to force the MFA to accept your declaration of the intent to reacquire.

Since it's likely that you'll end up in court anyway, a 1948 case tacked on doesn't seem like that much more of a burden.

[argentuban]

Has anyone had success with a 1948 case?

[carubia]

Numerous people have. Check http://italiancitizenship.freeforums.org/index.php. There are a few topics devoted to these cases with reports from a number of people at various stages of the process. There's also a list of people on the board who have successfully completed a 1948 lawsuit.