Re-acquisition of citizenship & dual citizenship questions

[ragazza77]

My father was born in Sicily on May 8th, 1951. (Birth certificate - check)

He emigrated to the USA with his parents and older sister on December 21st, 1955. (Passenger list - check)

He married my mother (US citizen) on January 3rd, 1975. (Marriage certificate - check)

My brother, me, and my sister were born between Sept 1975 and May of 1979. (Birth certificates - check)

He was naturalized on January 7th 1983. Until this time he was registered as an alien. (Certificate of Naturalization - check)

A fourth child (my younger brother) was born in May 1984. (Birth certificate - check)


My father would like to apply for re-acquisition of citizenship, and my siblings and I born before my father was naturalized would like to apply for dual citizenship. My understanding is that my younger brother born after my father was naturalized would not qualify for dual citizenship, although my mother would since she was (and still is) married to my father before he became a naturalized citizen.

Sounds simple, right?

Here is the confusing part:

My dad’s mother (my Italian grandmother) was naturalized on March 28th, 1969. At that time, my father was technically 17 years, 10 months, and 20 days old (http://www.calculator.net/age-calculator.html). I was under the impression that minors of Italian citizens who naturalized would also become USA citizens, yet my dad had an alien registration number and was naturalized himself at 31 years of age in 1983.

My dad’s father (my grandfather) was born to Italian parents in Milwaukee, WI, USA, on June 11, 1918, His parents brought him back to Italy as an infant (not exactly sure what year yet), and he was raised in Sicily where he served in the Italian army, married his Italian wife, and had two children before emigrating to the USA on December 21st, 1955. I believe that he was registered in AIRE because he received an Italian pension until the time of his death a few years ago.

If he was indeed a US citizen, having been born in the USA, why did his wife and two Italian-born to an Italian-mother children become naturalized (his wife in 1969, his first child at the age of 20, and his second child-my dad at the age of 31)?

And do any of these facts disqualify me from applying for dual citizenship or my father from applying for re-acquisition?

Thank you in advance for your wisdom and assistance!

[ragazza77]

Update: I spoke with my nonna and she told me that when my grandfather enlisted in the Italian army (as a US citizen), he was required to renounce his US citizenship. When he returned to the US he had to become a naturalized US citizen. Apparently, he did naturalize, but I haven't had a chance to go search for his naturalization certificate. Would the date of his naturalization influence my qualification for Italian citizenship? Thanks for any responses. Hoping to get some BUMPs on this thread. Thank you!

[OpusReticulatum]

Technical glitch. Will repost.

[ragazza77]

OpusReticulatum,

I'm not sure your repost went through because I don't see it. I'm anxious to hear your thoughts on this matter. I'd like to begin the application process, but I'm not really sure if I qualify. I did find a scan of my grandparent's marriage certificate -- I think the original is with my nonna -- and it indicates that both my grandparents are Italian citizens at the time of their marriage. I took a screenshot, but I can't quite figure out how to post it here. I'm afraid I'm don't quite have the hang of this forum yet.

Thank you all for your patience with my inquiry.

[OpusReticulatum]

Ciao.

Yes, the system here can take some getting used to. On a couple of occasions, I've hit the wrong button while editing and lost everything I had written.

Let me start with a couple of things, and go from here.

He was naturalized on January 7th 1983. Until this time he was registered as an alien. (Certificate of Naturalization - check)

Here is the confusing part:

My dad’s mother (my Italian grandmother) was naturalized on March 28th, 1969. At that time, my father was technically 17 years, 10 months, and 20 days old . . . I was under the impression that minors of Italian citizens who naturalized would also become USA citizens, yet my dad had an alien registration number and was naturalized himself at 31 years of age in 1983.

Are you sure that this is a certificate of naturalization, and not a certificate of citizenship? What does the text give as the date your father became a US citizen? I'm asking because sometimes, when a child acquired US citizenship from a parent who naturalized (and thus lost their Italian citizenship), they didn't always get a certificate of citizenship right away. Someone in my own family gained US citizenship from his father in the 1930s, but didn't order a US citizenship certificate until the 1970s. This certificate is dated 197_, but the text states that he gained US citizenship in 193_.

As for the "certificate of naturalization" vs "certificate of citizenship" question: usually, the parent would naturalize first. They would then be issued a certificate of naturalization. This certificate would usually be issued some time after the naturalization ceremony, and is usually dated the same year.

The children who gained citizenship through their parents are deemed by the government to have "acquired" citizenship even though they themselves did not go through the naturalization process. Therefore, they were issued certificates of citizenship. The dates of issue for these certificates will vary, depending on when the child or parents applied for a certificate to be issued. That could be the same year, several years later, or even decades later. Regardless of the date of issue, the text of the document will list when US citizenship was actually acquired.

I'm presuming that you have indeed checked this out already, but I'm asking just to make sure.

Note: The Italian government treats both naturalizing and acquiring citizenship (prior to 15 August 1992) the same when it comes to losing Italian citizenship.

My father would like to apply for re-acquisition of citizenship,

He can do this, but it will require him to do a short stay in Italy.

and my siblings and I born before my father was naturalized would like to apply for dual citizenship. My understanding is that my younger brother born after my father was naturalized would not qualify for dual citizenship, although my mother would since she was (and still is) married to my father before he became a naturalized citizen.

If your father did indeed retain his Italian citizenship until January of 1983, then your younger brother should be eligible for Italian citizenship recognition . . . but through your mother, not your father. Prior to 27 April 1983, a foreign woman who married an Italian citizen man automatically obtained Italian citizenship. Therefore, if your father still had Italian citizenship when he married your mother, you mother became an Italian citizen on January 3, 1975. As long as your mother did not naturalize in any other country or renounce her Italian citizenship before your younger brother was born, then your brother was born to an Italian citizen, and therefore is an Italian citizen himself.

[ragazza77]

Ciao Opus,

Thank you for your thoughtful considerations of my inquiries.

Yes, I am positive that this is a certificate of naturalization, and not a certificate of citizenship. This is definitely a certificate of naturalization dated in 1983, not a certificate of citizenship. As I am new to this process, would you mind taking a peek at the document to confirm for me? I’ve uploaded a scrubbed image to view (I hope that this is OK in this forum, please let me know if it is not, and I will delete it). You can view it here: https://tinyurl.com/nc-scrubbed

I don’t believe that my father received citizenship from his parents since his parents naturalized when he was 17. According to my mother, my father refused to present himself with his parents when they were naturalized, and therefore did not naturalize until many years later, after I was born. I’m not really sure about the veracity of this information, and my dad is having a hard time recalling his motivations in the 1960s. I just know from the dates on their naturalization certificates that they were naturalized just short of his 18th birthday. Or I’m wondering if at the time, a 17 year old was considered an adult in the US.

If my father wishes to reinstate his citizenship, I have read that establishing residency for up to 1 year is the requirement, but do you know how it is determined the actual length of the stay? I’m not sure if he can live in Italy for up to 1 year at this time.

Thanks again for your assistance clarifying my concerns. I am excited about the possibility of applying, but I want to be more confident that I qualify before I begin the process, especially considering that my consulate is about three hours away.

Best, Kate

[OpusReticulatum]

Kate,

Y

es, I am positive that this is a certificate of naturalization, and not a certificate of citizenship. This is definitely a certificate of naturalization dated in 1983, not a certificate of citizenship . . . I’ve uploaded a scrubbed image to view

That's certainly a certificate of naturalization that says your father became a US citizen in 1983.

So, that's very good!

I don’t believe that my father received citizenship from his parents since his parents naturalized when he was 17. According to my mother, my father refused to present himself with his parents when they were naturalized, and therefore did not naturalize until many years later, after I was born. I’m not really sure about the veracity of this information, and my dad is having a hard time recalling his motivations in the 1960s. I just know from the dates on their naturalization certificates that they were naturalized just short of his 18th birthday. Or I’m wondering if at the time, a 17 year old was considered an adult in the US.

This is the part that I'm not sure of, why your father didn't acquire US citizenship when his parents did, since he was a minor.

The age of majority in question here would be what Italy would consider a minor. At the time, 1969, the age of majority was 21. I believe it was lowered to 18 around 1975.

Was your father living at home when his parents naturalized? If he wasn't living with them, and he was an emancipated minor, he would not have lost his Italian citizenship along with his parents.

If my father wishes to reinstate his citizenship, I have read that establishing residency for up to 1 year is the requirement, but do you know how it is determined the actual length of the stay? I’m not sure if he can live in Italy for up to 1 year at this time.

He shouldn't have to live there for a full year. Former Italian citizens who return and live there for one year automatically reacquire their citizenship. However, the way that most people do it involves a shorter stay.

The former Italian citizen informs the consulate that they intend to return to Italy in order to reacquire their Italian citizenship. They then have one year to return to Italy to do so. Once they get to Italy, they register their residence in Italy with the local authorities (they provide them with an address where they will be staying - I believe it must be an apartment or a house, it can't be a hotel or the like). Then, they remain in Italy until the authorities come by to verify that they are residing in Italy. After that, I believe some paperwork needs to be finalized, and then they can leave Italy. The time frame depends on the local authorities. Some people have done this in less than a month, others a bit more than a month. But, it could be a little longer than that, it all depends.


T

hanks again for your assistance clarifying my concerns. I am excited about the possibility of applying, but I want to be more confident that I qualify before I begin the process, especially considering that my consulate is about three hours away

.

You're welcome!

Check your PM.

[ragazza77]

Hello Opus,
Thank you once again for your detailed and thoughtful response. I will do a bit more digging to see if I can uncover the mystery as to why my father did not acquire citizenship when he was younger. I am so appreciative that you have provided me several scenarios to consider as I work through this dilemma. Thanks, Kate (Ps -- I sent you a private message).

[jennabet]

Kate,

Y

Was your father living at home when his parents naturalized? If he wasn't living with them, and he was an emancipated minor, he would not have lost his Italian citizenship along with his parents.

The above information has been mis-interpreted. An Italian minor not living with his parents does not mean he was emancipated from his father. When my aunt gave birth to her youngest child, she was too ill to care for him so it was decided by his parents, both mother and father, that he would be raised in the home of another aunt while his father continued to support him financially meaning he was NOT and emancipated minor even though he did not live under his father's roof.

In my companion's case, his grand-father was a minor still living in his father's home but already married and expecting a child of his own when his father naturalized. He did not lose his Italian citizenship because he was an emancipated minor. More proof of his emancipation came in the fact that in the state of Pennsylvania, he was too young to apply for a marriage license without his father's signature which is clearly marked on the form (actually an X), his mark.

[OpusReticulatum]

The above information has been mis-interpreted. An Italian minor not living with his parents does not mean he was emancipated from his father.

My original response does not say that not living with one's parents constituted emancipation. I stated living apart from one's parents and emancipation could shield someone from loss of citizenship.

Was your father living at home when his parents naturalized? If he wasn't living with them, and he was an emancipated minor, he would not have lost his Italian citizenship along with his parents.

Since Kate's father didn't marry until he was around 24, I didn't think that he had a scenario similar to your companion's grandfather. But, yes, what you write about is most certainly a scenario that would constitute emancipation.

Kate's father's situation is puzzling. Normally, someone in his situation would have acquired US citizenship when his parents naturalized. However, Kate's father clearly did not acquire US citizenship in the 60s, since he was naturalized in 1983, and his certificate clearly states that he became a citizen in 1983, not during the 1960s.

Are there any other possible scenarios that you can think of that could account for this? Is there another way that he could have been considered emancipated?

[mler]

There are several possibilities that come to mind.

Perhaps your father was so adamant that he not naturalize that his parents did not include him on their paperwork, and he was never registered with them.

It's also possible that your father did naturalize with his parents but didn't know he did. Then, in 1983, instead of requesting a Certificate of Citizenship, he applied for naturalization. If he naturalized as a minor, the naturalization papers would not have been registered in his name so the US records would not show him as naturalized unless he claimed derivative US citizenship, provided the details, and requested a certificate confirming his citizenship status.

If this was the case, his 1983 naturalization was unnecessary, but since official records confirm his naturalization on that date, it simplifies the process for you. Generally, you need to trace your citizenship line only back to the ancestor who was born an Italian citizen and naturalized (after his child's birth) or who never naturalized. Based on the official naturalization records in your possession, that person appears to be your father.

Edited to add: Another thought, and probably the most likely situation. You mention that your father's mother naturalized in 1969. You don't mention his father. It seems your grandfather was actually a dual citizen--born in the US, a jus soli country--and an Italian citizen, citizenship that was reacquired when he moved to Italy and served in the armed forces. If your grandfather remained an Italian citizen after his wife naturalized, that may explain why your father retained his Italian citizenship. It's a most unusual situation, but your father's naturalization in 1983, means that the US did not consider him to be a US citizen until that date. (If your grandfather had a US birth certificate, it's very unlikely that he ever naturalized.)

I should add that even if your grandfather was a US citizen by birth, he did not live in the US long enough to automatically confer US citizenship to his Italian-born children. That's why they were required to naturalize.

[mler]

sorry duplicate

[mler]

More thoughts: It's very difficult to lose US citizenship, and renouncing US citizenship in front of Italian authorities would not accomplish this, but it would confirm his Italian citizenship in Italy and allow him to serve in the Italian army.

I am increasingly convinced that your gf never lost his US citizenship and never naturalized. However, his US citizenship would not automatically pass to his children because he had not resided in the US for a long period of time and during the period in which they were born. That is why both his wife and children, who were Italian citizens only, needed to naturalize but he did not.

Before 2001, a minor child only received derivative naturalization if both parents naturalized. If only your gm naturalized, and there was some confusion about your gf's citizenship status, the minor children would not have naturalized when she did.

I really think that's what happened.

[ragazza77]

Opus and Mler:

Thank you for your thoughtful responses and insights into this puzzle. I apologize for the delay in my response.

I was able to dig up some additional information. I asked my father to search more thoroughly for my GF's naturalization records, and he could not find them. Later that evening, my GM called him to let him know that she suddenly remembered that when they stood in front of the judge the judge said that he didn't need to naturalize since he was already a US citizen! I'm not sure why this family story of my GF renouncing his US citizenship and then having to regain it when he came back to the US persisted. And alas, he's no longer with us, so we cannot ask.

Mler, I think you are right on target when you say that it is most likely that my GF had dual citizenship status because of his US birth certificate and having lived in Italy the majority of his life and serving in the Italian military. I am assuming that the US considered him a citizen because of his US birth, and Italy due to his long term residence and military service.

Do you think it is enough to proceed with my citizenship application with only my father's naturalization documents? Or should I also do more investigation into this puzzle of my grandfather's citizenship status? I'm wondering if the consulate will be satisfied with my father's documentation or if they will also want to see documentation from my grandparents.

Thanks again for your assistance and astute observations about this most puzzling case! I really wish I had pursued this at an earlier time when my GF was still alive and I could have more clarity on this situation.

Best, Kate

[mler]

Generally, you begin with the ancestor who naturalized. That would be your father. This simplifies the process for you, and your father can also easily reacquire. As OR has explained, the process begins with the consulate and requires a residency of considerably less than one year.