I went online and they're booking out to April 2020 for Miami, so I booked the appointment now. Good tip, thank you!
I've heard that some people have expedited the process by applying with an Italian court through an attorney in Italy—that might be an option I explore. Something about the 730 day rule?
What's the renewal process like for you? You're basically having to go in-person to replace the expired passport?
What am I missing? Attempting jure sanguinis through mother's line
Re: What am I missing? Attempting jure sanguinis through mother's line
Exactly Robertk, you have it correct. If the immigrant was naturalized, his papers come in one entire package, Declaration of Intention, Petition for Citizenship, Oath of Allegiance. If an immigrant who's most critical document, the Petition for Citizenship, is not included in the package, that immigrant did NOT naturalize. It's as simple as that. No petition, no naturalization. Likewise if the Petition containing all pertinent information about the immigrant is not submitted to the Italian consulate, the application will be rejected. To say that a consulate accepted an application and recognized a descendent without the ancestor's Petition being submitted is just not credible. Did NOT happen.robertk wrote: ↑09 Sep 2018, 22:29 Thank you all for sharing your experiences and reassuring me here! I went digging further and found the microfilm copies of my GGF's declaration of intention, petition, and oath—the whole package from the court naturalization records. That reassures me that I won't have to find my GGGF's papers now.
Robertk, you have everything you need. Small spelling errors on the cognome last name) are not a problem. Your case is like MINE. It is NOT like the case of the person who provides mis-information in this forum about what can be submitted to and accepted by the consulate if the applicant expects to be recognized.
Re: What am I missing? Attempting jure sanguinis through mother's line
Jennebet, you have the unfortunate habit of assuming that your experience represents universal truth. Your insistence on this was the primary reason we were forced to ban you from the tapatalk forum. Apparently, the resentment lingers. I’m sorry.
My packet did indeed include the petition, but I didn’t submit it to the consulate (it had an error in it). The consulate, however, recognized that my gf naturalized because it was specified in the oath, and voila, my citizenship was recognized.
I know that you don’t believe this because it doesn’t conform to your very narrow experience, but not all applications are the same, and not all consular officers interpret documents uniformly.
I do agree that the consulates would be less forgiving today. They want all the documents, and are unlikely to accept less. You’ll note that I specifically stated earlier that no one can make assumptions based on someone else’s experience. Now if you would only learn that...SIGH!
Btw, the most critical document is not the petition; it is the Oath because that specifies the date on which naturalization took place. The declaration and the petition are only preliminary papers that satisfy US requirements for naturalization. If an immigrant took the Oath, he obviously satisfied US requirements. In point of fact, until fairly recently, some consulates were accepting applicants without any preliminary papers and only the Certificate of Naturalization since is was the act of naturalizing that ended citizenship, not the request to naturalize.
My packet did indeed include the petition, but I didn’t submit it to the consulate (it had an error in it). The consulate, however, recognized that my gf naturalized because it was specified in the oath, and voila, my citizenship was recognized.
I know that you don’t believe this because it doesn’t conform to your very narrow experience, but not all applications are the same, and not all consular officers interpret documents uniformly. I do agree that the consulates would be less forgiving today. They want all the documents, and are unlikely to accept less. You’ll note that I specifically stated earlier that no one can make assumptions based on someone else’s experience. Now if you would only learn that...SIGH!
Btw, the most critical document is not the petition; it is the Oath because that specifies the date on which naturalization took place. The declaration and the petition are only preliminary papers that satisfy US requirements for naturalization. If an immigrant took the Oath, he obviously satisfied US requirements. In point of fact, until fairly recently, some consulates were accepting applicants without any preliminary papers and only the Certificate of Naturalization since is was the act of naturalizing that ended citizenship, not the request to naturalize.
Re: What am I missing? Attempting jure sanguinis through mother's line
Hi Robert, re passports: The consulates will not renew passports; they will only issue new ones. To get a passport, first/second/third, you need to sign up online and schedule through their website (much like you did for your citizenship appointment). Then, you need to physically present at the consulate with the appropriate fee to obtain it.
I’ve been putting this off because I’d like to go in with my son, and I’m not sure when will be a good time. He is a surgeon, and his schedule is rather unpredictable. Unfortunately, the process cannot be done by mail.
If you want to expedite your citizenship application, have all the necessary documentation and are willing to pay the extra money, there are several services that can walk you through applying in Italy. This is not a court issue and doesn’t require an attorney. Essentially, the service assists you in establishing residency in a cooperative comune and handles the paperwork for you. I believe you need to be physically present in Italy for a period of time—not too long.
There are several services that handle this, and I’m sure costs vary so do some research if you’re considering this option.
I’ve been putting this off because I’d like to go in with my son, and I’m not sure when will be a good time. He is a surgeon, and his schedule is rather unpredictable. Unfortunately, the process cannot be done by mail.
If you want to expedite your citizenship application, have all the necessary documentation and are willing to pay the extra money, there are several services that can walk you through applying in Italy. This is not a court issue and doesn’t require an attorney. Essentially, the service assists you in establishing residency in a cooperative comune and handles the paperwork for you. I believe you need to be physically present in Italy for a period of time—not too long.
There are several services that handle this, and I’m sure costs vary so do some research if you’re considering this option.
Re: What am I missing? Attempting jure sanguinis through mother's line
Neither of the experiences I've had in preparing two cases, my own and my companion's were narrow. YOURS is narrow because you claim your documents were accepted without the most pertinent information that proves who the immigrant is, where he came from, when he arrived, who his parents are, who his wife is, how many children he has and their ages, who sponsored him, etc. Shall I go back and supply the information of you claiming to be married to an Italian and that you would claim Italian citizenship through marriage? Most people who obtain citizenship by marriage do so because they are not Italian by blood and not qualified to be recognized jures sanguines. You have been at this a long time, mler. And frankly, I am tired of it. Furthermore, if it's true as you claim that you did not supply the petition because it had an error in it, some people might call that deception and even fraud -- but you don't seem to mind bragging about having done it.mler wrote: ↑11 Sep 2018, 14:41 Jennebet, you have the unfortunate habit of assuming that your experience represents universal truth. Your insistence on this was the primary reason we were forced to ban you from the tapatalk forum. Apparently, the resentment lingers. I’m sorry.
My packet did indeed include the petition, but I didn’t submit it to the consulate (it had an error in it). The consulate, however, recognized that my gf naturalized because it was specified in the oath, and voila, my citizenship was recognized.
I do agree that the consulates would be less forgiving today. They want all the documents, and are unlikely to accept less. You’ll note that I specifically stated earlier that no one can make assumptions based on someone else’s experience. Now if you would only learn that...SIGH!
Btw, the most critical document is not the petition; it is the Oath because that specifies the date on which naturalization took place. The declaration and the petition are only preliminary papers that satisfy US requirements for naturalization. If an immigrant took the Oath, he obviously satisfied US requirements. In point of fact, until fairly recently, some consulates were accepting applicants without any preliminary papers and only the Certificate of Naturalization since is was the act of naturalizing that ended citizenship, not the request to naturalize.
Re: What am I missing? Attempting jure sanguinis through mother's line
Yes, jennebet, please do go back, but your memory is faulty. I never posted anything of the sort. My husband was born and raised in Italy but he was NOT Italian when we married so citizenship through marriage was never a possibility, and it’s ridiculous to think I ever considered it.
My son and I obtained citizenship through my gf at the NY consulate. And, although I know you will insist it didn’t happen this way, I was living in the Newark jurisdiction at the time. (It was rather a surprise actually.)
And, yes your experience is narrow, and mine is narrow as well. There have been many thousands of cases in many different consulates. Your experience is limited to two consulates and two applications, the first, many years ago; mine is limited to a successful application in NY and a preliminary application in Newark. Neither your two applications nor my applications are representative of what will happen today in the many different consulates around the world.
The difference between you and me is that I recognize that my experience is limited to my experience. You apparently believe that your experience represents universal procedures, and that is simply incorrect.
Your experience is simply your experience; my experience is simply my experience.
I’m sorry that you cannot accept this simple truth. I have NEVER questioned your reporting of your consular experiences. It’s unfortunate that you are unable to extend a similar courtesy to me.
...
While you’re going back to old posts, you might also want to find the ones where I explained how I happened to get recognized in NY and why I didn’t submit the petition. My father’s birthday was incorrect on my gf’s petition, so I decided to avoid a potential problem. Had the consulate asked for it, I had another packet with the petition included. They didn’t ask for it, so I didn’t provide it. There is no requirement to provide information or documentation that is not requested. And, yes, I know that when you applied, they wanted the petition. Every experience is different.
My son and I obtained citizenship through my gf at the NY consulate. And, although I know you will insist it didn’t happen this way, I was living in the Newark jurisdiction at the time. (It was rather a surprise actually.)
And, yes your experience is narrow, and mine is narrow as well. There have been many thousands of cases in many different consulates. Your experience is limited to two consulates and two applications, the first, many years ago; mine is limited to a successful application in NY and a preliminary application in Newark. Neither your two applications nor my applications are representative of what will happen today in the many different consulates around the world.
The difference between you and me is that I recognize that my experience is limited to my experience. You apparently believe that your experience represents universal procedures, and that is simply incorrect.
Your experience is simply your experience; my experience is simply my experience.
I’m sorry that you cannot accept this simple truth. I have NEVER questioned your reporting of your consular experiences. It’s unfortunate that you are unable to extend a similar courtesy to me.
...
While you’re going back to old posts, you might also want to find the ones where I explained how I happened to get recognized in NY and why I didn’t submit the petition. My father’s birthday was incorrect on my gf’s petition, so I decided to avoid a potential problem. Had the consulate asked for it, I had another packet with the petition included. They didn’t ask for it, so I didn’t provide it. There is no requirement to provide information or documentation that is not requested. And, yes, I know that when you applied, they wanted the petition. Every experience is different.
Re: What am I missing? Attempting jure sanguinis through mother's line
This is separate from the previous discussion, but I thought that some of you following this thread would wonder how I obtained citizenship outside my jurisdiction. It was actually quite an unusual experience.
My son was a NYC resident, so I thought I would try to apply with him using his address. We submitted our applications, but during the interview, the consular official quickly determined that I was outside my jurisdiction, and he told me I could not use my son’s address. He suggested that I apply in Newark and then my son could apply later, but I told him to process my son’s application and that I would apply at a later date. He accepted the documents for review.
Four months later, I submitted my documents in Newark, and I wondered who would hear first. Three months later, my son called to let me know his citizenship was recognized, and when I checked my mail, I realized that NY had processed my application, and I was also recognized. (I think the consular official never removed my application from my son’s packet and just sent everything to my comune.) The next day, I went to Newark to retrieve my documents. They had yet to be reviewed.
A happy surprise!
My son was a NYC resident, so I thought I would try to apply with him using his address. We submitted our applications, but during the interview, the consular official quickly determined that I was outside my jurisdiction, and he told me I could not use my son’s address. He suggested that I apply in Newark and then my son could apply later, but I told him to process my son’s application and that I would apply at a later date. He accepted the documents for review.
Four months later, I submitted my documents in Newark, and I wondered who would hear first. Three months later, my son called to let me know his citizenship was recognized, and when I checked my mail, I realized that NY had processed my application, and I was also recognized. (I think the consular official never removed my application from my son’s packet and just sent everything to my comune.) The next day, I went to Newark to retrieve my documents. They had yet to be reviewed.
A happy surprise!
