Dual Citizenship Help

[jowest31@sky.com]

Hi

I wonder if anyone can help as I am still confused

My grandmother was born in Italy, she married my english grandfather after the war in 1946, they moved back to england and my father was born in 1947
I have read that my grandmother could not pass automatic citizenship to my father as he was born before the 1948 act.

What I would like to find out is, when my grandmother married my grandfather in italy, did my english grandfather become an italian citizen?

Both my great grandparents, born and died in italy. I still have uncles and cousins in italy that I am in contact with.

I cannot find out if my grandmother ever neutralised but I have been told she had a UK passport, but my question is, after living in England from the age of 19 until she died aged 79, it would of been a EU passport and not a UK.

I am really hoping this is not the end of the road for myself to get dual citizenship.

If anyone can help that would be great.

Thanks

Joanne

[jennabet]

Hi

I wonder if anyone can help as I am still confused

My grandmother was born in Italy, she married my english grandfather after the war in 1946, they moved back to england and my father was born in 1947
I have read that my grandmother could not pass automatic citizenship to my father as he was born before the 1948 act



What I would like to find out is, when my grandmother married my grandfather in italy, did my english grandfather become an italian citizen?

Both my great grandparents, born and died in italy. I still have uncles and cousins in italy that I am in contact with.

I cannot find out if my grandmother ever neutralised but I have been told she had a UK passport, but my question is, after living in England from the age of 19 until she died aged 79, it would of been a EU passport and not a UK.

I am really hoping this is not the end of the road for myself to get dual citizenship.

If anyone can help that would be great.

Thanks

Joanne

Your Italian grand-mother lost her Italian citizenship when she married a foreigner in 1946 and your British grand-father did not become an Italian citizen. In addition, all of your grand-mother's children (not just those born before 1948) would not have inherited Italian citizenship and would have the citizenship of their father only -- in this case British. From the time of her marriage, your grand-mother always had a UK passport, not an EU passport. You are not Italian and are not qualified for Italian citizenship.

[jowest31@sky.com]

Hi

Ok thank you, So if my grandparents married in Italy then how would that make my grandmother a a british citizen? So in italian law if you marry a foreigner in italy, you automatically lose your right to be italian and gain the foreigners citizenship instead, even though they married in italy.

So how would it of worked if they stayed living in italy? They would of been two british citizens living in italy? Very confused now

[jennabet]

Yes, in 1946 in Italy an Italian woman who married a foreigner lost her Italian citizenship. It would not have mattered where they married. And yes, if they had stayed in Italy they would have both been British and all of their children would have been British only.

[jennabet]

By the way, if children of two British citizens had been born in Italy and remained in Italy until age 18, they would have been given an option to naturalize Italian but in so doing would have had to give up their British citizenship.

By the way, this is still the case today. Any possibility of birth on the soil citizenship for the children of immigrants born and raised in Italy was firmly rejected by the Italian people when it was rushed in for a vote late last year before the closing of parliament. Now that Italy has turned to the right and is expected to stay that way for at least 30 years, fortunately we won't see anything like this happening any time soon but we do expect to see changes to the jus sanguinis laws in a relatively short period of time.

[mler]

It really depends on how your grandmother obtained her British citizenship.

If your gm obtained citizenship by request, that would be considered naturalization. If she never requested citizenship but obtained it automatically, you have a 1948 case.

EDITED TO ADD: I reread the law, and it seems that before 1948, woman obtained British citizenship automatically. Since this did not occur through naturalization, you have a 1948 case. You may want to look up the British Nationality Act of 1948. Since your grandparents’ marriage precedes that date, you should be good to go.

[mler]

To clarify further: Early in the 20th century, women’s rights were somewhat limited, and their citizenship was tied to their husband’s citizenship. In the US, this changed in 1922, when women were able to naturalize on their own behalf. In Britain, it appears to have changed in 1948.

The courts have ruled that when a women obtained a foreign citizenship automatically without any action on her part, she retained Italian citizenship. Before 1992, there were only two ways to lose Italian citizenship—by naturalization or by making a declaration at an Italian consulate or comune. Automatic acquisition of a foreign citizenship was neither and did not result in Italian citizenship loss.

[jowest31@sky.com]

Wow,thank you, This really is confusing. I do not believe my grandmother would ever have given up her right to italian citizenship. Speaking to my uncle, he does believe she always had a UK passport though but is not 100 per cent how she obtained it. I am waiting for some UK records to see if she did naturalize and will be visiting the town of my grandmothers birth place in April to try and get the original birth and marriage, although I have copies sent to me today by my father.

So it seems like a big tangle of laws and dates. I will keep searching but what you have said has made me not want to give up just yet, I love my italian heritage and what to be part of it.

Thank you

[mler]

There would only be two ways for her to get it.

1) She obtained it automatically when she married your grandfather. (This seems the most probable based on dates.)
2) She formally requested citizenship recognition based on her marriage.

Based on my research of British citizenship law, I think the first scenario is most probable. However, if she did obtain citizenship by her formal request, you would still qualify if she did so after your father was born.

[jowest31@sky.com]

Fantastic, thank you, I will obtain all the documents I need, visit Italian consulate or comune and finger crossed. I do not believe my grandmother would have given up her italian citizenship knowingly, she was 18 years old, the war had just ended and by what she told me italy, my family had suffered very badly but she loved her family very much. I hope I manage to achieve this in my grandmothers memory, especially if she was unaware of the consequences!

Thanks again

[jennabet]

You can apply in the commune if you reside permanently in the commune otherwise you would apply at your consulate.

[jowest31@sky.com]

Great thank you

So I assume that I need, my

Grandmothers full birth certificate,
Grandparent's full marriage certificate,
My fathers full birth certificate
My own full birth certificate.

Would I need proof that she never neutralised? or anything else

Thanks

Jo

[jennabet]

No, the marriage certificate will give them the info they need about your grand-mother. You will also need your father's marriage certificate and your own if you're married.

[mler]

Jo, do check with your consulate. You are likely applying in London, and you will need to determine if they also require documents from the non-citizen line. (Some consulates do.) If so, you will also need the birth certificate for your mother. If you have children, be sure to submit their birth certificates as well. The documents listed by jennebet are also required.

The people who work in Italian consulates have a lot of information to absorb. They not only need to be aware of the intricacies of Italian citizenship law, but they also need to know the naturalization requirements for the area they serve.

It is likely that officials working in the London consulate are well informed on British citizenship law, but it doesn’t hurt to be prepared in case there is a question. A full copy of the 1948 law is available online for reference.

[mler]

OOPS!!! Actually, you won’t be going through the consulate or the comune since your father was born in 1947. Do contact a 1948 attorney, and he will tell you exactly what you need. Be sure to stress that according to British citizenship law at the time of your grandmother’s marriage, she obtained British citizenship automatically and never naturalized.

The 1948 lawyers are good at what they do, but they may not be totally familiar with the citizenship laws in various jurisdictions.