Hello,
I was wondering if anyone would be able to help me translate/read this marriage record for my great-great-great-grandparents. It is from 1830. I can read and translate it pretty well as I have gone through a lot of Sicilian records but this has a lot of writing on the second page I could use help reading. Most of my interest also stems from two questions:
Do you think my reading of my gggg-grandmother's name as Agata Verzì is correct?
Secondly, what is that title in front of Antonino, Vincenzo & Domenico's names?
I have seen it also used in the birth record of Antonino's son Gaetano, my gg-grandfather, but Gaetano's marriage records of births of his children never give him that title, nor do any of the other members of my Sicilian family. Does anyone knows what it is or what it means?
The urls below go to pages 1 and 2 of Antonino and his wife Arcangela's marriage record:
http://trees.ancestry.com/tree/22336449 ... 9244332/me...
http://trees.ancestry.com/tree/22336449 ... 9244332/me...
Thank you!
JMSC
Marriage certificate translation
Re: Marriage certificate translation
Hi JMSC 
This is a difficult record to read...
The title you see looks like "Maestro" and since the occupation of those with this title in the record is "muratore" or "mason", this title means an expert artisan or teacher.
As for Agata's surname - I'm leaning more toward BORZI
T.
This is a difficult record to read...
The title you see looks like "Maestro" and since the occupation of those with this title in the record is "muratore" or "mason", this title means an expert artisan or teacher.
As for Agata's surname - I'm leaning more toward BORZI
T.
Re: Marriage certificate translation
Your second image (page 2 of the Solemn Promise of Marriage - the record is not a Marriage act)
Top -
Indicates that the groom was accompanied by his parents (Vincenzo and Francesca) who give their consent; and the bride is accompanied by her father Domenico who gives consent.
Bottom -
List of documents presented...
1 - birth record of groom dated 1804 (looks like it could be November)
2 - birth record of bride dated 1811 (can't read anything more specific
)
3 - looks like the publication (banns) to be posted.
T.
Top -
Indicates that the groom was accompanied by his parents (Vincenzo and Francesca) who give their consent; and the bride is accompanied by her father Domenico who gives consent.
Bottom -
List of documents presented...
1 - birth record of groom dated 1804 (looks like it could be November)
2 - birth record of bride dated 1811 (can't read anything more specific
)3 - looks like the publication (banns) to be posted.
T.
Re: Marriage certificate translation
As for Agata's surname - I'm leaning more toward BORZI GOOD WORK T
I agree with T its a surname that is in that area. Do you have another page for the promise of marriage?
Marty
I agree with T its a surname that is in that area. Do you have another page for the promise of marriage?
Marty
Researching Trabia, Palermo surnames Adelfio, Bondi, Butera, Scardino,Rinella, Scardamaglia
Marty
Marty
Re: Marriage certificate translation
Thank you for the help Tess and Marty!
I'm not sure if this is the other page you are looking for or not or if I am being redundant and posted something I have already posted:
http://trees.ancestry.com/tree/22336449 ... id%7cpgNum
Thank you for the insight into the "maestro" before the names of Antonino, Vincenzo and Domenico, that's very interesting if it's true, whether they were highly skilled or teacher's of their craft.
As for Agata's last name, Borzì seems like it would be correct! I had though Verzì, which is quasi-regional to Catania though not as much so as Virzì or Borzì. I got Verzì from the alphabetical listings at the end of each year in the records, and under V I found names that looked stylized very similar to Agata's last name so I went with that, but Borzì may be there as well as I didn't thoroughly check the B's because I actually though the first letter was an R. Anyway, I do have some other records featuring her name:
This convinces me further that it is Borzì (it's the alphabetical listing at the end of one of the years):
http://trees.ancestry.com/tree/22336449 ... id%7cpgNum
However, this one made me think previously it was Verzì:
From another marriage promise record(?):
http://trees.ancestry.com/tree/22336449 ... id%7cpgNum
(there appears to be something else after her surname or maybe apart of it in this record and the original one I posted as well)
Page 2 of that second promise:
http://trees.ancestry.com/tree/22336449 ... id%7cpgNum
I'm not sure if this is the other page you are looking for or not or if I am being redundant and posted something I have already posted:
http://trees.ancestry.com/tree/22336449 ... id%7cpgNum
Thank you for the insight into the "maestro" before the names of Antonino, Vincenzo and Domenico, that's very interesting if it's true, whether they were highly skilled or teacher's of their craft.
As for Agata's last name, Borzì seems like it would be correct! I had though Verzì, which is quasi-regional to Catania though not as much so as Virzì or Borzì. I got Verzì from the alphabetical listings at the end of each year in the records, and under V I found names that looked stylized very similar to Agata's last name so I went with that, but Borzì may be there as well as I didn't thoroughly check the B's because I actually though the first letter was an R. Anyway, I do have some other records featuring her name:
This convinces me further that it is Borzì (it's the alphabetical listing at the end of one of the years):
http://trees.ancestry.com/tree/22336449 ... id%7cpgNum
However, this one made me think previously it was Verzì:
From another marriage promise record(?):
http://trees.ancestry.com/tree/22336449 ... id%7cpgNum
(there appears to be something else after her surname or maybe apart of it in this record and the original one I posted as well)
Page 2 of that second promise:
http://trees.ancestry.com/tree/22336449 ... id%7cpgNum
Re: Marriage certificate translation
I'm a little confusedjsalamone wrote:Thank you for the help Tess and Marty!
I'm not sure if this is the other page you are looking for or not or if I am being redundant and posted something I have already posted:
http://trees.ancestry.com/tree/22336449 ... id%7cpgNum
I translated your page 2 as you posted in your initial posting (I had to move through your images on Ancestry)
HOWEVER, the page you list above is NOT the one I translated.... Did I look at the wrong one?
T.
Re: Marriage certificate translation
I can see where you see "Verzi" as a possibility...jsalamone wrote:
Thank you for the insight into the "maestro" before the names of Antonino, Vincenzo and Domenico, that's very interesting if it's true, whether they were highly skilled or teacher's of their craft.
As for Agata's last name, Borzì seems like it would be correct! I had though Verzì, which is quasi-regional to Catania though not as much so as Virzì or Borzì. I got Verzì from the alphabetical listings at the end of each year in the records, and under V I found names that looked stylized very similar to Agata's last name so I went with that, but Borzì may be there as well as I didn't thoroughly check the B's because I actually though the first letter was an R. Anyway, I do have some other records featuring her name:
This convinces me further that it is Borzì (it's the alphabetical listing at the end of one of the years):
http://trees.ancestry.com/tree/22336449 ... id%7cpgNum
However, this one made me think previously it was Verzì:
From another marriage promise record(?):
http://trees.ancestry.com/tree/22336449 ... id%7cpgNum
(there appears to be something else after her surname or maybe apart of it in this record and the original one I posted as well)
Page 2 of that second promise:
http://trees.ancestry.com/tree/22336449 ... id%7cpgNum
The index surname certainly looks like Verzi, but there is a middle name there and it looks like "Ignazio" - Are you sure this is Agata? First name doesn't have that shape
On the page 2 of the solemn promise you posted here - It does look like they listed the act of death of "Agata Verzi"
In the marriage record, what I think you see after her name is "defunta" - deceased.
T.
Re: Marriage certificate translation
The first post pages would not work for me that is why I ask for page 2 of the marriage promise to see the list of records. It says Agata Verzi died in 1815 on the record list 
Marty
Marty
Researching Trabia, Palermo surnames Adelfio, Bondi, Butera, Scardino,Rinella, Scardamaglia
Marty
Marty
Re: Marriage certificate translation
Sorry for all the link confusion 
They always get mixed up. Basically what I have on that ancestry page are 2 pages of Antonino Ronsisvalle & Arcangela Grasso's marriage, then an index for their marriage, and then 2 pages for the marriage of Arcangela's brother Angelo.
You have been super helpful and insightful! I'll see if I can find Agata's death record to verify her name but thank you Tessa for pointing out the defunto!
J
They always get mixed up. Basically what I have on that ancestry page are 2 pages of Antonino Ronsisvalle & Arcangela Grasso's marriage, then an index for their marriage, and then 2 pages for the marriage of Arcangela's brother Angelo. You have been super helpful and insightful! I'll see if I can find Agata's death record to verify her name but thank you Tessa for pointing out the defunto!
J
