French translation help

[mjclayton1]

Erudita-

Thanks for your message/thoughts. You and the many peer volunteers here offer such a tremendous service to so many people. It's really amazing stuff. And so personal, too. To think that a poster wouldn't be gracious for the (free) help is just so counterintuitive to me...

I credit my mother for teaching me certain good manners. Be gracious when appropriate. Treat others like you would like to be treated yourself, etc. Not difficult concepts, really, but as a divorcee and with three children in tow, taking the time to instill such things in me and my siblings is nothing less than a great credit to her. Also, she was born in Canada and we all know how nice those Canadians are...

I think I found the death record for my maternal great great-great grandfather, David Sweeney. Is dated 19 Dec 19, 1881, his death being noted as the day before (18 Dec). You'll recall that David was the wife of Maria Dolan (Sweeney) - see my first post on the subject above (2nd attachment). Some good clues to its relevance are the fact that two of David's children were named Maria (J)osephine Sweeney and John Sweeney. Same name as the two witnesses...

Obviously, I don't need translation assistance here, but I wonder why certain records don't include the person's spouse? As you've already pointed out, Maria Dolan (Sweeney) was still alive (she died in 1915). Maybe Brownburg-Chatham (only 15 minutes away from the Township of Grenville) wasn't as thorough in their record=keeping?? I realize that you may not be familiar with such Canadian customs, but just thought I'd ask...

Happy travels to you and your husband!

Mark

[erudita74]

Mark
All I can tell you is that, in Italy, the Council of Trent in the mid 1500s dictated that the parish priests in Italy keep registers/records of the events in their parishes such as births/baptisms, marriages, and deaths. It did not dictate the format that those records had to take. So some records give us a great deal of info, whereas others very little. I can't say about Canadian church records. Some of them are not even from Catholic churches, if I'm understanding things correctly. So perhaps there was no specific requirement for the records, as was the case in Italy, and the priests/ministers just recorded whatever info they chose to include.

You've probably seen the following links, but I'm posting them, in case you haven't. I just came across them. The second link would probably have been useful to me, had I previously seen it.

https://familysearch.org/wiki/en/Quebec ... l_Records)

http://bibnum2.banq.qc.ca/bna/dicoGenealogie/

BTW, I've been at this type of research for 20 years. When I first started, my research focused on names, dates, and relationships. BUT, then I realized that I needed to see the bigger picture to truly understand the ancestries of my husband and myself. So I started researching any topic suggested by the records, and I'm still at it. So, if any subject arouses your curiosity, ask away. I can't promise that I will know the answers, but I will try to steer you in the right direction, if I don't.

Erudita

[mjclayton1]

Hello, again Erudita! (and Livio, et al...)

When either of you have some time (or perhaps even some other kind soul?!), I have three more French Canadian records for translation. All for Martin McAndrew, whom I believe is a collateral descendant (a brother to Michael McAndrew, my 3x great-grandfather). All told, a baptism, interment and marriage record. I think the last one is probably not a hit, as I think the signs are leading more towards Bridget McCoy being Martin's spouse, not Mary "Morin/Moring". Your help will, of course, lead me ever so much closer to solving/reconciling that question. The last record is intriguing in it's length, so even if it proves to not be a hit I am nonetheless quite curious to discover any number of the details "hidden" within!

Thanks in advance. As always, your assistance is very much appreciated...

Mark

[p.s. - I hope you have traveled well of late, Erudita!]

[erudita74]

Hi Mark
The Martin in the burial record, said to be the husband of Bridget McCoy, was age 84 when he died on the 15th of March 1900. The burial was on the 17th, the date of the record. There are two witnesses, Thomas and John McAndrew. With an age of 84 at death, this Martin would have been born in 1816.

I'll try to get back to you sometime today with the other records, as I have to leave shortly.

Erudita

[mjclayton1]

Thanks much, Erudita. Good to hear from you again. Please, no rush at all on the other ones. It's all "well worth the wait."

Mark

[erudita74]

The marriage record is dated Aug 17, 1863
The groom: Martin Mc Andrew of this parish, adult son of deceased Michael Mc Andrew, and deceased Baptistina (her surname looks like Doroghitly but I’m sure that is incorrect). Again, the surnames from this region are proving to be a real challenge for me.
The bride: Mary Moring, also of this parish, was the minor daughter of James Moring and Bethie or Bettice McAndrew (I am thinking her name is actually Elizabeth, but I could be wrong).
Witnesses were James Moring and Thomas Mc Andrew

The baptism record is dated July 8, 1876. The condition of this record is making it very difficult to decipher accurately. The infant being baptized is Martin McAndrew and the parents are Martin McAndrew and Mary Moring. I think it says he was born on the 19th of June, but I’m not 100% on this. I can’t make out the name of the godfather at all. The godmother’s name looks like Elia Mc Andrew. I’m not 100% sure about her first name though.

Mark, hopefully Livio, or some other volunteer on the forum who knows French, will look these over.

Erudita

[mjclayton1]

Hi, Erudita-

Thanks for your efforts here. As to the 1863 McAndrew-Moring marriage record, it doesn't appear that this can be a hit, as you had already helped me previously in this string (page 1) with the 1886 death record for Barbara Dougherty/Doherty. At the time, you had also added that her husband, Michael McAndrew, was still alive at the time her death (no widow reference). I think this therefore renders the commentary for the 2nd one just above (1876 Baptism record) "moot."

BTW, I think you really nailed the 1900 Burial record for Martin McAndrew (BTW, looks like his wife's surname spelling was McCory. but I definitely use the "McCoy" here). After I entered this death entry for Martin on my tree I was able to find some more records, including an absolutely "killer" (stellar) photo of him from another Pubic Tree. So very cool!

Interesting to add that another Tree owner has both Bridget McAndrew (married to John Moran) and Margaret McAndrew as sisters to Martin, but, at minimum, I don't think the latter sister is correct. I've attached the Margaret McAndrew death records here.

Thanks again.
Mark

[erudita74]

Mark
I'm not sure why there are two records, as the info in them is identical. The records are dated on Dec 10, 1896 for the burial in the cemetery of Grenville. Margaret Mc Andrew died on the 7th and was the wife of John Rodger. There is something before the first name John that I can't decipher. She was age 89. Witnesses were Robert Elliot and Martin Mc Andrew.

Erudita

[mjclayton1]

Hi, Erudita-

Those two records did look the same to me, too, but thanks for confirming nonetheless...

This begs yet another record. This one - marriage record fro Margaret and John - looks particularly juicy. Obviously, I can see the names myself, as the record is quite clear (why is this?). I see Margaret (Marguerite) McAndrew(s) and Jean (John) Rogers. Also, a reference to her parents Antoine (Anthony?) McAndrew(s) and Charlotte Devitt (Dewitt?). Also, on the second page that it appears as if Margaret's two brothers, Jean (John) and Michel (Michael) appeared as witnesses. I just need all the little details filled in - you know, those important things like dates, etc., that make the record more clear and "come alive."

Thanks in advance for coming up with those for me...

Best,
Mark

[liviomoreno]

Oct 18 1836
Groom: Jean (John) Rogers son of deceased John Rogers and of Catherine Cummings living in ????
Bride: Marguerite (Margareth) McAndrews daughter of deceased Antoine McAndrews and Charlotte Devitt all from Grenville
Witnesses: Jean et Michel McAndrews, brother (singular...) of the bride and Jacques (James) Morau all illitterate

[liviomoreno]

Mark
I'm not sure why there are two records, as the info in them is identical. The records are dated on Dec 10, 1896 for the burial in the cemetery of Grenville. Margaret Mc Andrew died on the 7th and was the wife of John Rodger. There is something before the first name ( "feu"="deceased") John that I can't decipher. She was age 89. Witnesses were Robert Elliot and Martin Mc Andrew.

Erudita

[mjclayton1]

Hi, Livio-

Thanks very much for your two postings. As to where Catherine Cummings lived, I wonder if you think this is possibly "Cortland", as in New York? There's a city by that name that lies not too far south of the Canada-U.S. boundary (and not far south of Syracuse, NY). Looking at a map, from that town, if you drive up the 81 you'd cross into Canada, north of Kingston... and head on to the 401 which could then split off towards Ottawa... and also Grenville to the northeast. Just some random speculation on my part there, but am perhaps looking for your opinion of the word/town suggested here - "Cortland".

Also, as to the "feu" comment, that's good to know. Google Translate shows that word as being "fire" in English so I was confused when I tried that translation previously. I guess the older vernacular was somewhat different!

Kind Regards,
Mark

[erudita74]

It's not Cortland. Definitely does not start with the letter C. I think it is Ireland.

Erudita

[mjclayton1]

It's not Cortland. Definitely does not start with the letter C. I think it is Ireland.

Erudita

Ah, of course! That would make too much sense, now wouldn't it?

Nice job, Erudita!! Together, you and Livio are a "dangerous" team indeed!!!


Mark

[erudita74]

You're very welcome, Mark. Yes, Livio and I are a team not to be reckoned with! When the eyes of one of us fail, the other one's eyes are there for backup. Also, thanks Livio for deciphering the word "feu" in the other record. I should have realized that that was what was written there.

Erudita