Looking for info on surname Bellezza in Roccalumera

[JoelTheItalianGuy]

Hi Marty,

I'm not sure if you are still in contact with this forum, but I just only recently had a chance to look over my old computer files and I had FOUND the marriage record that you wanted us to find for my great grandmother Agata and my great grandfather Enrico. The marriage of Agata Grasso to Enrico Ballezza (Bullezzi).
Enrico Ballezzi's marriage to Agata Grasso
They married on October 17, 1896.

familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-23859-36522-38?cc=1967753&wc=M6NX-S38:252970001,253906

I also have it in my FamilyTreeNow tree:
Root is: https://www.familytreenow.com/trees/13713/person/
Enrico is: https://www.familytreenow.com/trees/137 ... 26/profile
I have gotten some more information over the last few years from a cousin. But you will note that I have a very perplexing mystery - so perplexing that I'm astonished.
Notice the birth dates of Paulo Scrivene and Domenica Bullezzi (they are too close in time). Yet I have the official birth record of Domenica as 29 Mar 1897. I originally thought that it had been 22 Jan 1896, which fits better with Paulo's birthdate. But how can I argue with her official mention in an Italian archive? I find it hard to dispute a document that is written in Italian. It almost has to be correct. Yet if she was born in 1897, then when was Paulo born? I do not think I have ever found Paulo's birth record. It would be nice if I could find a birth record for Paulo Scrivene. Family Search has those nice records which I have shown as a link in my FamilyTreeNow (one that you gave me long ago). But I have to go through over 2000 records. Is there an index that might have something. It is a deep mystery who Paulo Scrivene really is. I assume my great grandmother who took care of him for however long was his mother. This is about the time Enrico was fighting in the Italo-Ethiopian war so anything is possible.

Any help appreciated.
Thanks,

Joel Ballezza

[adelfio]

Im still here I will take a look at your info

Marty

[adelfio]

Hi Joel

I don't know if Maria Scionti was a relative of Enrico and Agata or she began ill and they took Paolo Scrivere with them to the USA and adopted him later and he took their name

Im still looking for Enrico and Agata marriage record in Messina

Birth record of Paolo Scrivere
1897 Mar 22nd in the town of Messina birth of Paolo Scrivere he was left at the foundling wheel at the hospital wrapped in a blanket with markings on it his mother was Maria Scionti

PG LINK TO RECORD
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cc=1967753

Marty

[JoelTheItalianGuy]

Your theory of adoption is the best explanation so far. So he's not Agata's child by birth - unless she lied about her name (doubtful). I don't yet have any pictures of him - that might help. And I don't have any genetic information.

But I (or you) can simply research Maria Scionti - once we find that she is a known person, then he was adopted.

There is one other remote possibility that Agata gave birth to a child, and it's not the one we mention here: Paulo Scrivere (Mar 22 1897).

I guess I'll keep your theory as most likely and have a 2nd backup plan that we have the wrong child (or perhaps a 3rd plan that it's the wrong name of the mother). But you are probably correct.

[JoelTheItalianGuy]

Their marriage is in the Italy, Messina, Messina Civil Registration Commune of 1866-1910, under the subsection 1876-1878:

familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-23859-36522-38?cc=1967753&wc=M6NX-S38:252970001,253906

Or if you want, it might be easier to get it from my FamilyTreeNow link to Enrico's profile sources:



https://www.familytreenow.com/trees/137 ... 26/profile

I wonder if Paulo ever knew who his real mother was?

[JoelTheItalianGuy]

A quote from a cousin of mine:

I have a copy of Agatha Bellezzi (Big Mom's) death certificate. It lists her Date of Birth as Feb 5, 1875 and I'm fairly certain that's right because my mom (Agnes Caspanello) died on Feb 2, 2007 and she told me that morning that Big Mom's birthday would have been in a few days. Also, Big Mom's death certificate lists her mother's maiden name as being Scuderi, but I'm not certain that's right.

Notice that all of this discussion lacks PROOF. We are always taking from an unofficial source. I need better sources. But I think the marriage source - the record I've attached here is fine. I believe it's true. But the official date of a marriage does not say much about children.

[JoelTheItalianGuy]

It's possible that her US Certificate of Death is wrong.

[adelfio]

That is not the marriage record of Enrico its a sidenote on his birth record do you have the link to the marriage record

Marty

[JoelTheItalianGuy]

Hi Marty,
I finally now know who Domenica Ballezza Ferrantello was. I found a death record which helps to explain, then I looked further on FamilySearch.

She is the mother of my Uncle Vito, who I used to see when I was living in Pennsylvania. My father would meet him and I would go with him. Or he would come to my house in Oreland, Pennsylvania and stay for lunch. She lived to be over 102 years old. Below shows some Family Search information which includes Lucy and Esther's family. These are her sisters. The find a grave gives her birth as March 31 1895 (off by two years from the official Italian birth record). At least I know more about her now.

https://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.c ... 775&df=all&

Domenica's children included my Uncle Vito
Domenica Ferrantello
United States, GenealogyBank Obituaries, 1980-2014
death: 22 October 1999
obituary: 23 October 1999 Long Island, New York, United States
children: Vito Ferrantello, Philip V Ferrantello, Henry Ferrantello, Ann Williams, Agnes Vespignani, Mary Benson, John Ferrantello
other: Lucy Latronica, Esther Dougherty

I guess this doesn't really help resolve the mystery of her and Paulo's birth but at least I know her better. The Find A Grave is almost surely wrong about the birth year - I doubt the Italian record could be wrong.

[JoelTheItalianGuy]

That is not the marriage record of Enrico its a sidenote on his birth record do you have the link to the marriage record

Marty

Link to marriage record on Family Search - can be downloaded from that site.


https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cc=1967753

[JoelTheItalianGuy]

Update:
It is likely that Agata adopted Paolo as a sub for Domenica who she had been carrying, and gave up for adoption when Enrico left for the war. So when Enrico came back, perhaps at first, he thought Paolo was his. There are details to research: 1) What date did Enrico leave for the war? 2) The exact paternity of Domenica and Paolo, but these are more difficult details. I assume that Domenica was Enrico's and it is only Paolo who was adopted. 3) Did Agata adopt Paolo for the reason I have hypothesized?

Your theory of adoption is the best explanation so far. So he's not Agata's child by birth - unless she lied about her name (doubtful). I don't yet have any pictures of him - that might help. And I don't have any genetic information.

But I (or you) can simply research Maria Scionti - once we find that she is a known person, then he was adopted.

There is one other remote possibility that Agata gave birth to a child, and it's not the one we mention here: Paulo Scrivere (Mar 22 1897).

I guess I'll keep your theory as most likely and have a 2nd backup plan that we have the wrong child (or perhaps a 3rd plan that it's the wrong name of the mother). But you are probably correct.

[JoelTheItalianGuy]

I have now discovered via Santi's birth record that Agata Grasso, my great-grandmother, had had another child Rosa Monforte in April 1891 (with Antonino Monforte, the father of Maria Aurelio Monforte with mother Maria Filomena).