Who are the real parents of Evangelista Ninivaggi

[rp76226]

I have been in email conversation with a woman in Torino, Italy who only understands Italian, and since I essentially only understand English, I have been using Google Translate to communicate with her. Despite the limitations, it has worked surprisingly well and I have received a lot of new and good information from her. However, there is one relative that we each have on our family trees, Evangelista Ninivaggi, that she claims is the same person, but I show different parents for that person, than she does. She is claiming that mistakes were often made and that her parents are correct. Let me present the evidence on both sides.

My parents for Evangelista Ninivaggi, based on the death record of Evangelista Ninivaggi, clearly show the parents to be Giuseppe Ninivaggi and Teodora Incampo, and the wife to be Teresa Rifino. I also have a child's marriage record showing again that the wife of Evangelista Ninivaggi is Teresa Rifino, and another child's birth record showing the same two parents.

She shows two marriages for Evangelista Ninivaggi, the first to Cecilia Ferullo, and the second to Teresa Frizzale. She is claiming that, due to "nicknames" used back then for family surnames, the second wife, Teresa Frizzale is the same as the wife I show, Teresa Rifino. It is noteworthy that we each show the same first name (Antonio) as the father of Teresa and same complete mother's name for her (Anna Colonna). Her two marriage records for her Evangelista Ninivaggi show his parents to be Francesco Saverio Ninivaggi and Donata Incampo (versus the parents I show - Giuseppe Ninivaggi and Teodora Incampo). If they are truly the same people, she has a lot more information on their ancestors whereas I have no additional information on their ancestors. However, to me, the parents names are too different to be the same people. Yet she is indicating that they lived at the same addresses and must be the same people. Therefore, I am not sure that I am right either.

Here are the civil records:

Mine:

https://s29.postimg.org/rpbgmhstz/Niniv ... d_1855.jpg

https://s27.postimg.org/inta9meyb/Niniv ... d_1849.jpg

https://s12.postimg.org/ungeozbb1/Niniv ... b_1820.jpg

Hers:

https://s30.postimg.org/eji7sp5j5/Niniv ... a_1817.jpg

https://s7.postimg.org/fke4vjisb/Incamp ... d_1818.jpg

https://s27.postimg.org/mhfug1rlv/Niniv ... _birth.jpg

Finally, here is the link to her Ninivaggi family trees (only number "1" is relevant to this post) on geneanet:

http://gw.geneanet.org/18101?lang=en&v=NINIVAGGI&m=N

[rp76226]

Here is the Google Translation of the last email that I received from Italy:

The updates, however, concern all the family of NINIVAGGI EVANGELISTA, son of Incampo Donata and Francesco Saverio, conjugated in prime wedding with Ferrullo Cecilia and in second marriage 1817 with Frizzale Teresa, widow of Spezzacatena Tommaso, called in the births of all her Children (first and second marriage) both with the name Frizzale and with the surname Rifino, nickname. The certainty that this is the same is also the fact that the children of Evangelista -Rifìno and Evangelista-Frizzale are all born in Santa Chiara Street 9, which Evangelista is the only one in Altamura to marry twice, There is no other Evangelist "son of Joseph and Teodora Incampo as stated by witnesses of death, illiterate.

[rp76226]

Here is the latest information I received from my contact in Torino. A couple of words did not google Translate well:

The most reliable test is that Teresa Frizzale is called Rifino is in the birth document of his son Nicola Spezzacatena born December 28, 1813, and this Teresa is the same - Widow of Spezzacatena Tommaso - who in 1817 will marry Evangelista Ninivaggi. In the birth document of Francis 1828 in holy street Chiara 9 is called TERESA RIFINO in the birth document of Antonio 1831 - Holy Road Chiara 9 - is called TERESA FRIZZALE. The Evangelist's death act has not been rectified because nobody noticed it. Ormasi was dead, the children were illiterate. Foreign witnesses denounced death. However, many acts have tabs next to the error correction, some have noticed. However, in Altamura there is no one of the ninety-eighths who has contracted TEODORA INCAMPO.

For those that read italian, here is her original text:

la prova più certa è che Teresa Frizzale è chiamata Rifino è nel documento di nascita del figlio Nicola Spezzacatena nato 28 dicembre 1813 e questa Teresa è la stessa – vedova di Spezzacatena Tommaso – che nel 1817 sposerà Evangelista Ninivaggi. Nel documento di nascita di Francesco 1828 in strada santa Chiara 9 è chiamata TERESA RIFINO nel documento di nascita di Antonio 1831 - strada santa Chiara 9 -è chiamata TERESA FRIZZALE . L’atto di morte di Evangelista non è stato rettificato perché nessuno se ne è accorto. Ormasi era morto i figli erano analfabeti. Estranei testimoni hanno denunciato la morte. Molti atti invece hanno dei foglietti accanto con la rettifica dell’errore, qualcuno se ne è accorto. Comunque ad Altamura NON ESISTE NESSUN GIUSEPPE NINIVAGGI CHE HA SPOSATO TEODORA INCAMPO. Solo i documenti religiosi sono esatti. Purtroppo i Preti – se non li paghi – non rispondono.

[PippoM]

I think you mean "ormasi". It's a typo for "ormai"="by then".
"holy street Chiara 9" is an address "9, St. Chiara street".
The translation that mostly astonished me was "Comunque ad Altamura NON ESISTE NESSUN GIUSEPPE NINIVAGGI CHE HA SPOSATO TEODORA INCAMPO". It means "However, in Altamura there's no Giuseppe Ninivaggi who married a Teodora Incampo".
Is there any other word I can help you for?

[rp76226]

Thank you. I think I have solved the Teresa Frizzale-Rifino puzzle. At that same address, four years apart, Teresa Frizzale, then Teresa Rifino gave birth with the same husband, Evangelista Ninivaggi. Neither died because records for Teresa Frizzale and Teresa Rifino continue afterwards. Therefore, they must be the same person, with one a real surname, and the other a nickname. So the other Frizzale records before the marriage to Evangelista Ninivaggi are true and so is his other marriage.