the use of "ALIAS" & "DETTO" in Church records

[Barbarossa]

Is there any prior reference on here, or anyone with a history background that knows or can share something about the use of the expression "alias" and "detto"

eg. Piero Magnifico alias Dubovich -- where Magnifico seems to be the rooted common surname of the family but for some reason the alias was included / given to that person (and not always throughout the entire family line).

also, as for "detto", which sometimes seems to refer to a nickname or other name,

Giorgio Castellan detto Ferlora of Loznati - I kept the last part indicating the city in as there is also a place called Ferlora.

and in one case, I read a marriage record that didn't refer to the grooms surname but actually said, following his first name, Francesco detto "bello culo"

I'd like to think nice bum wasn't his surname, flattering as it may have been in the 1600s

[PippoM]

You are right.
Expecially in times when people didn't formally have a surname, you can find personal or family nicknames, that in their turn may have become actual surnames or not.
In some exceptional cases "detto" is now an actual part of surname! For instance, in Chioggia area (near Venice), the most common surnames are Boscolo and Tiozzo, but they are usually accompanied by a "detto", i.e. you can find people who have, for instance, "Mario Boscolo detto Anzoletti", in their documents. That's because from the XVII century it became necessary to distinguish the various branches of family.

[Anizio]

I have many many family lines with aliases. Often what you will find in records is the word "vulgo"

"Marchionni vulgo Lorenzetti" - which means the same thing as alias or detto, but more importantly it gives a clue that it is in fact a "vulgar" last name.
It is often just called a family "nickname" by people but that is not necessarily accurate.

For instance I have an ancestor name "Carlo Grasselli detto Carlinaccio" - his descendants did not adopt this alias of Carlinaccio, so it would be appropriate to call it a nickname.

However, with true second surname it is a little deceiving to simply call it a nickname. Rather than a nickname (a soprannome) it is sometimes called in Italian a "subcognome."

The reason they are called nicknames commonly is that many arise as nicknames, but many if not most do not.

I can give you many examples from my own family line

- Marchionni vulgo Lorenzetti - Marchionni was the evolution of the name Melchiorri, given to descendants of a man named Melchiore. His descendant in the early 1600s was Lorenzo Marchionni. Lorenzo's descendents were given the names "Marchionni vulgo Lorenzetti" - literally "meaning" descendents of Melchiore and of Lorenzo. By the end of the Napoleonic war Marchionni was dropped and they went by Lorenzetti.

- Mozzaorecchia vulgo Cenci - There was a line of ancestors of mine named Mozzaorecchia. In 1728 Francesco Mozzaorecchia married Antonia Cenci. Their descendants were immediately known as Mozzaorecchia vulgo Cenci in the records. Eventually the family dropped Mozzaorecchia and just went by Cenci, so they adopted the surname of the mothers line.

- Brunetti vulgo Polli - In the late 1500s I had two ancestors. Ippolito was nicknamed "Pollo" and he married Brunetta. Their descendants for the first few generations went interchangeable by Polli (meaning descended from "Pollo") and Brunetti (meaning descended from Brunetta). Eventually some went by only the name Polli and some only by the name Brunetti. To claim one of these is a cognome and one is a nickname would be false entirely.

- Cenci vulgo Silvestrini - starting in the late 1500s the descendants of a man named Cencio di Ottaviano started going by Cenci. Around 1730 Giuseppe Cenci married Anastasia Saudelli. Their descendants started going by Cenci vulgo Silvestrini. Why? Because Anastasia's grandfather was named Silvestro Saudelli. So their descendents were regarded as "the children/descendants of Cencio and of Silvestro".

- Piersanti vulgo Zanchetta - in the late 1600s a man named Pier Sante had children. At the time in that town many of the people did not have surnames yet and still went by "son of" or di. So his children were all referred to as "di Pier Sante" although their children just went by Piersanti and some for future descendants. But Pier Sante was Pier Sante di Gentile detto Zanchetta. And Gentile was Gentile di Bedino detto Zanchetta. Bedino was Bedino d'Andrea detto Zanchetta. So in this you see that the "subcognome" or the family 'nickname' is actually older than the "cognome."

I could go on and on, the Andreani vulgo delle Neve, Andreoli vulgo Bacchetta, Montesi vulgo Rossi, Giuliani vulgo Giaccio, Tonucci vulgo Paoletto, Gabrielli vulgo Tosagatti, Tabacco vulgo Pistapepe, Grilli vulgo Paupini, Sala vulgo Bacciocco, Sala vulgo del Faree, Rotadori vulgo Toccacielo, Rocconi vulgo Pistagnocchi, Patrignani vulgo Casabianca, Travaglini vulgo Diani.

There are countless examples just in my own family tree. Some subcognomi arose later, some are actually older than "surnames." Keep in mind most Italian surnames arose because of the latin records being kept. In Latin records "Antoni" for instance literally means "son of Antonio" and in many families the "surname" turned into Antoni, or Antonietti, Antonini, etc. for that reason. In many cases it is more appropriate to call the older "subcognome", often wrongly called a nickname, the true "family name."

Some subcognomi are from nicknames, professions, descendancy, etc. - same as regular cognomi. There is really no distinction until you wrongly apply a 2017 mindset to the past. In genealogy you must always be careful apply your modern interpretations to the past, you must learn to put yourself in the time period, mentally.

In other words, was Francesco's surname "bello cullo"? Well if that name was inherited by his descendants or used by his ancestors, the simple answer is...yes it was. And Piero had two names, Magnifico and Dubovich - I two have an example of an older family in northern Italy where one cognome is in Italian and the other is in French.

[Barbarossa]

Thank you so much both Pippo and Anizio !

Such great detailed information - much of it shedding some new light for me in a few respects.

I hadn't encountered in any alias reference (yet) in the civil records I'd been through for the more direct family in the Molise region. It wasn't until these Church records for Cherso that I noticed the occurrences. I'll have to pay more attention now as "vulgo" may have been overlooked if I'd seen it, not giving it the same notice as the other expressions.

The civil records that are available for my core family's areas don't go as far back as these Church records - I'm hoping that soon enough they are able to add the civil records for these areas of Italy still not available on the Antenati site.

All this will certainly help in piecing connections together the further I go. ESPECIALLY on the progression of subcognomi, and how to reflect on that in the right perspective.

- Brunetti vulgo Polli - In the late 1500s I had two ancestors. Ippolito was nicknamed "Pollo" and he married Brunetta. Their descendants for the first few generations went interchangeable by Polli (meaning descended from "Pollo") and Brunetti (meaning descended from Brunetta). Eventually some went by only the name Polli and some only by the name Brunetti. To claim one of these is a cognome and one is a nickname would be false entirely.

Anzio, the above reference resonated some common note in the Brunetti surname. I have 2 known great grandparents of the Brunetti surname - 7x in Angelo Antonio Brunetti c. 1698 from Roccaspromonte and his daughter with Cristina Mascitelli, 6x great grandmother Giovanna B who married Felice Antonecchia c 1744.

What area are the Brunetti you mention from ?

As for the "bello cullo's" I've seen a few in my day [chuckle] but no such other reference of that subcognomi in the Church records I've been through for this area of Cherso - it's not one I've linked to anyone of this indirect branch I'm looking at but, it certainly stood out as somewhat a "progressive" expression to see used as it was.

The Croatian kept Church records add a bit of a challenge as more abbreviations are presented (such as "pron" which was revealed to me to refer to Padrone), and many Latin and Slavic influences are present - the death records almost all in Latin. As well, these records do present differently, with less detail in some cases, than civil records I've reviewed. Like I said, hoping some civil records come to light online soon.

A good weekend to you all

John

[Anizio]

Alises in civil records are very rare. Just as the requirements of the Council of Trent for churches to start creating records causes many cases of double-surnames, the beginning of civil records with the Napoleonic era in Italy started eliminating them. It still happens, and I can think of a few examples I have seen in civil records.

Civil records in Italy generally tend not to go back far, usually stopping in 1860 or around 1808. Either way when your priority is "name meaning and origin" (to which there are a lot of people who mistakenly think its translation is its meaning and its origin is wherever it is more prevalent) then the only and best way to do that is church records. It also starts becoming important as you go back to not just focus on your own ancestors but also their siblings and cousins. For instance when looking for my ancestor Benedetto Brunetti, I could not find his baptism....but then I found a baptism for someone named Benedetto Polli. Then again there was a marriage for someone named Benedetto Brunetti. Both with the same father. As I included his siblings, and nieces and nephews I quickly discovered both names were being used interchangeable, and when I got to the records for his father, Orazio, he was listed on various years of the Stato delle Anime under each surname. Basically I am emphasizing that the only way to find "name meaning and origin" is to do the hard work in the church records, no website or book to my knowledge is reliable for this.

The Brunetti in my case are from the town of Mondavio in Pesaro e Urbino. So the origin story would only apply to Brunetti in that town and likely many of the surrounding towns - but even then only if they could be sure to trace it to Brunetta and Ippolito. Other people in other parts of Italy may have their surname originating from someone named Brunetto or Bruno but thats something they need to investigate in the records for themselves.

In Latin records, not just the Croation church, shortforms are typical. Very typical, because it is that way in the Latin language in general. I can think of one example of a subcognome I know but is not part of my ancestry: Cinquantascale which is more often written in the records as 50scale. It is especially common with first names in latin records since they are more standard....at least recently. One interesting fact is that many of our modern cognomi stem from first names used in the 1500s and 1600s that are not really used anymore: Ciaschino, Mencarello, Menco, Gaudioso, Galdenzio - as examples. It seems once the council of Trent ordered churches to start keeping records the, number of religious names increased. In fact in several towns I researched the female name Lucia was much more common in the 1500s than the name Maria was.

Anyway, happy to help.

[Barbarossa]

Excellent.
Fortunately most of my civil record searches for the communities of Campobasso are well documented and available on line. Some exceptions fall in areas that were (considered) part of Isernia.

I'm hoping that if any Church records for this area are on micro-film, they will appear on family search at some time. Short of winning a lottery and travelling to Italy to do the legwork, hands-on, that's my "best bet" .

I got accustomed to the issue of surnames (or lack of ) while I was piecing my brother in law's paternal Dutch ancestry together - back to 78 generations in his case. Though in his case, much of the connections were already well documented and I just pieced it together - no data searches as I don't read Dutch/German.

Thankfully, even though I'm not fluent in speaking Italian, I can read and understand conversation enough that reviewing the records isn't always an issue - the very cursive handwriting aside, only the occasional need for help in some translations, or extra eyes to help verify that I'm getting it right.

I expect that my immediate maternal Luciani side (earlier form Luciano) leads back to a Lucio/Lucia and the D'Onofrio (di Onofrio in some case) component, well ? Onofrio

My immediate paternal side [di] Iorio and de Simone (the latter not explored yet as my grandfather was a foundling but we know who his biological father was now).

We go by the name given his mother, also a foundling, Belvedere. She gave him up but was later reunited, and my grandfather reverted to Belvedere from the "Barbarossa" surname he was given by civil authorities, later in his early 20s. The last born, my father and his twin brother were 3 of 7 siblings to officially have Belvedere on their birth record - It helped my grandfather was mayor of Castropignano for a period of time too, I imagine !.

Again, Gratitude. john

[Anizio]

You will not find many church records online, scanned, or on microfilm if you find any at all. It requires visiting, having someone go there, or writing letters and emails to parishes and diocese archives.

You must also be very cautious. There will be many people living at the same time in the same town with the same name, and sometimes church records do not give you enough information to determine exactly who it is. Do not be tempted to guess or assume or you research the wrong person.

Perfect example is a distant cousin who did parish research even before I started doing genealogy. He actually lived in Italy and had his tree written about in the local papers. But as I gained access to the records to confirm, I found his error. Our common ancestor was Pietro Mencarelli, born circa 1778. He naturally found the only Pietro Mencarelli born in that town around that time and assumed it was him...he was wrong. Our Pietro Mencarelli was born in a neighbouring town around the same time and eventually moved into the town when he got married. His mistake led him to make a false family tree and he ended up researching someone else's ancestors.

Chances are yes d'Onofrio and Luciani may lead to someone named Onofrio and Lucio somewhere down the line...but there is only one way to be sure. As is the case in the examples I gave you, some names actually originate from nicknames of ancestors or female ancestors. As you will surely notice as you go back, in many church records in Italy 3 given names are common and sometimes people choose not to go by their first given name. There is no "middle name" category in Italian. Ie. Giovanni Antonio Carlo Luciani is someone with 3 given names and 1 surname, there is no "middle" name and all given names are equal.

[Barbarossa]

Besides the Croatian Church book records 1516-1994 which include the Italians born of the communities of Cres Island

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1 ... cc=2040054

LDS does have online availability of these imaged Italian Church records on micro-film and published online -- included here at the end for the benefit of any that may find use. I'm hopeful maybe one day more will be available, even if not for my benefit.

My core tree of great grandparents and their siblings is about 70% (guestimate) complete regarding the main lines back to 11 generations in some areas. I don't anticipate finding too much more, unless as you detail, I'm able to ever visit and see any Church records for the areas that my family roots in Italy stem from.

There are only a few of areas on the tree I've been completing on 2 yrs now that pose some questions in the ascendants, where up to that point the Civil records have given the accurate links going back from my grandparents. The exception in my case is the branch off the biological father of my grandfather Rafaelle, Nicolangelo de Simone b. c 1851 (where I have to determine) who was a judge in Casacalenda where my GF was conceived [his mother then sent off to Castropignano to work for a Doctor with whom she later inherited his property from - starting the chain which reunited her with her teenage son by then.]

Nicolangelo was newly married and having his legitimate child around the same time as my GF with his wife Silvia Paolucci b. 1859 in Castelnuovo Della Daunia, Foggia, Italy. Some of her family before her I've traced but as for my natural GGF Nicolangelo I have to determine his birth place and find a birth record still - or the marriage record of Nicolangelo & Silvia may help but, nf as yet. My sister may have already but, she is not sharing information with me if that is the case... she stopped talking to me when I started my own tree.

My searching of already established records/data has gone well beyond some of what she had - my goal was to expand on the siblings of as many GGP as possible, doing so, leading to much more information and (verifiable) revelation as you were noting. I had some de Simone speculations but, I turned focus to the people of the communities of certainty until I move on to the de Simone of ?? once a certain birth record for Nicolangelo is located. Fingers crossed

My GGM, who we knew as just "Lucia Belvedere" - was born and orphaned with the full name "Mariannina Lucia Fortunata Belvedere" given to her on her abandonment. When I started my tree, within the first week while it was still public, it led to the discovery of a 7th cousin(Mariateresa di Bartolomeo) in Campobasso city, who had & had published the same tree data my sister had record of but not published. In some areas Mariateresa and a Cameli cousin in the same city, went well beyond the generations my sister found outside the first 4-5 generations.

Mariateresa had and extensive tree of 20000 plus, and some time ago located the foundling birth record of Dec (16) 1866 for Lucia. A great event as we knew nothing of her proper birth date. Her remains were recently moved and relocated in a new internment with her birth date -- prior to that, a small crumbling cross in the ground and nothing else. She never married.

I share this as this way if anyone else asks, I don't have to type the "short story" again above. My tree extended, in areas other than Mariateresa and some other new found cousins with trees, and with indirect lines, has reached that 20000+ point now. Much of the indirect lines tie back to direct ones in circles of course - pretty much everyone in the family married cousins back then in marrying close to home. It turned out my reaching further back than 5 generations, I discovered my parents were 6th cousins with commen "Cameli" roots, and all my aunts & uncles by marriage were relations already, as cousins to me, before that aunt or uncle designation by marriage.

Perhaps if you have a moment, you could take a look at that birth record for my GGM as it was challenging for me to get through. Share any thoughts you might have - no requirement on your part or prejudice.

www.antenati.san.beniculturali.it/v/Arc ... 8.jpg.html

The most difficulty I found was the names of her foster parents that were noted - and locating when/where they were born just for curiosities sake.

I did share that record with my sister right away (which she had tried to find for years I guess) but it was never acknowledged, though thankfully the data was used for establishing her date of birth on her new gravesite, as this sister did initiate fund gathering among willing grandchildren and relatives in Rome/Castropignano - these local relatives took on the part of organizing all the necessary arrangement for my GGM's new location, from ground to wall/standing resting place. Ironically this sibling that doesn't speak to me is the namesake for this Lucia Belvedere.

Thank you again for the time and insight. I don't fancy myself a 'genealogist' so much so - but, I've been enjoying the challenge of piecing together my human family puzzle, and being able to bring more light to those who came before me - giving identity/ something back to them and for future generations who come.

______
Available Italian Church book records - imaged online.


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[Barbarossa]

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