Out in Left Field

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NickAndreola
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Out in Left Field

Post by NickAndreola »

I apologize in advance for how long the linked page takes to open :oops: but it has some VERY intriguing information that I'd really appreciating having some input from Italian speakers on just what this means. Everything appears to be abbreviated and/or in government language that I'm not getting much clarity on with my usual on-line translators. This is the link to the document on the Casalvecchio Commune website :

http://www.comune.casalvecchiodipuglia. ... rticle.jsp

For those of you who have the patience of saints and have waited for it to upload....see page 3, N* D'Ord 55 and 56.

The names listed are all my close relatives ---father, Aunt & Uncle, Grandparents, 1st cousin & Grand Uncle....


What is this document saying......Does my family still have land in Italy?????????????????
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PippoM
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Re: Out in Left Field

Post by PippoM »

Well, I could not find the notice that the document you posted is attached to.
However, what I understand is that the people who are mentioned had been assigned land that was property of Town. As I understand, it is now possible to get full ownership of the land for very little money.
However, remember that all along these years, someone else might have been using that land, and that would bring to legal disputes.
On the other hand, had that land been abandoned, the new owner would have to keep it clean, because, for instance, he would be considered responsible for fires originating from there.
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NickAndreola
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Re: Out in Left Field

Post by NickAndreola »

Thanks Pippo.

I tried to post pictures of Page One for the over all titles etc... and Page Three which shows my family's names as "Occupatiori'.


Page One --Note that a re-evaluation was done in 2017
https://imageshack.com/a/img923/3765/uHkWGz.jpg

Page three
https://imageshack.com/a/img923/4008/8ywXNA.jpg
NickAndreola
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Re: Out in Left Field

Post by NickAndreola »

I tried another method and this image of Page Three may be more readable.

I did also send a note to the current Mayor of Casalvecchio, Noe' Andreano. His name also appears in this document on #36, 37 & 38.


https://imageshack.com/a/img922/1598/yoiQqa.png
NickAndreola
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Re: Out in Left Field

Post by NickAndreola »

When I try to translate "usufruttuarui in parte" I get "partly enjoy it" which I guess makes some kinda sense that all the listed people share it.

I've got the Olive Grove for Uliveto Vigneto.


ha a ca just gives me nonsense..................
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liviomoreno
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Re: Out in Left Field

Post by liviomoreno »

"ha a ca" is the measure of surface of the land
1 ha = 10000 square meters
1 a = 100 square meters
1 ca = 1 square meter

In line 56 the surface is 0,0540 = 540 square meters = 5812,5116 square feet
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mmogno
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Re: Out in Left Field

Post by mmogno »

PippoM wrote: 12 Feb 2018, 09:14 Well, I could not find the notice that the document you posted is attached to.
However, what I understand is that the people who are mentioned had been assigned land that was property of Town. As I understand, it is now possible to get full ownership of the land for very little money.
However, remember that all along these years, someone else might have been using that land, and that would bring to legal disputes.
On the other hand, had that land been abandoned, the new owner would have to keep it clean, because, for instance, he would be considered responsible for fires originating from there.
@PippoM
Ciao Pippo. La tabella è un allegato a una delibera del Consiglio Comunale, che riguarda la regolarizzazione della proprietà di immobili formalmente pubblici, ma di fatto occupati da tempo da privati (se capisco bene). Vedi
http://www.comune.casalvecchiodipuglia. ... usi-civici
e gli allegati relativi.

@NickAndreola
Oliveto and Vigneto are the type of culture present in the field. Olive plantations and vineyards determine the value of the site.
ha, a, ca are unit of measurement for agricultural land: ha = ettaro = 10.000 m², a = ara = 100 m², ca = centiara = 1 m²
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NickAndreola
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Re: Out in Left Field

Post by NickAndreola »

Thanks for the increased clarity y'all!

I've started looking at those other documents you linked to mmogno......

From the first one:

Art. 1 Finalita' /?
Con il presente regolamento, si intende dare concreta attuazione alle diverse norme succedutesi nel tempo al fine di riconoscere i diritti acquisiti dalla popolazione residente sulle terre di uso civico; inoltre, dare concreta attuazione alle richeste di affrencazione pervenute.

With this regulation, the intention is to give concrete form to the various rules that have come to pass over time in order to recognize the rights acquired by the resident population on the land of civic use; in addition, give concrete effect to the requests for dispossession received.


Art. 8 Procedura di reintegra

1.Qualora per gli occupatori delle terre gravate da uso civico non sussitstono i requisiti per legittimazione, ovvero non viene manifesta dagli stessi lo volanta' di procedere all'affrancazione o agle obblighi dlla concessione (pagamento del canone rivalutato annuo), si procedura' alla reintegra al patrimonio civico demaniale del commune. La reintegra puo' essere disposta (a qualunque epoca l'occupazione rimonte) con provvedimento amminisrativo di competenza regionale...
2. In sequito alla reintegra della terre al demanio civico, il commune evetualmente puo' optare a nuove asseqnazione tramite procedura ad evidenza pubblica.


1.If the occupants of lands burdened by civic use do not have the requisites for legitimation, that is to say, the intention to proceed with the exemption or obligations of the concession (payment of the annual revalued rent) is not manifested by the same. reinstates the municipal public property of the commune. The reintegration can be arranged (at any time the employment remains) with an aminisrative provision of regional competence ...
2. Following the reinstatement of the lands to the civic state, the commune can now opt for new organization through a public procedure.

Still not quite sure what the 'big-picture' is yet
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