Nonno lied - any ideas?

[researching]

Hi everyone,

I’m wondering if any of you have any experience with this. I would like to request my grandfather’s military service records. He fought in WWII, but he lied about his age. He was only 13 when he enlisted. I’m sure this was common at the time, and I have a feeling the authorities turned a blind eye to things like this, because they needed soldiers.

I have found a sample letter to send to Italy, but I’m wondering if this is information that I should add to the letter. My writing in Italian is kind of crap, so I’m not even sure if they’ll understand. Do you think they will be able to find him with a date of birth that is not what he gave them?

If you’ve tried this or have any ideas, please let me know. Here is the sample letter:

Archivio di Stato di ... (name of the province)....
Egregio Direttore / Egregia Direttrice:...(select depending on whether male or female)...

Mi chiamo ...(your name)... e sono alla ricerca della mia storia familiare. Le sarei molto grato/a di farmi pervenire una copia della lista di leva o il ruolo matricolare di :
COGNOME e NOME:....(ancestor’s name)....
NATO IL : ....(date of birth, if you do not know the date write: "intorno" and an approximate date)... for example : intorno al 1880-1885) ..........
FIGLIO / A di: ......(son of, father's name)... e di .....(mother's name).....
NATO IN :...(place of birth -may be approximate-. If you do not know where your ancestor was born, delete this line)...
RingrazioLa per quanto potrete fare, Le invio i miei cordiali saluti.
Signature
Dati Personali ...(write your name, and postal address)...

Thanks
Julie

[Italysearcher]

WW2 was not like WW1 where anyone was accepted. 13 seems awfully young, if you have the ship manifest it is the closest you'll get to a birth year. You should have his birth record before you start requesting military records.

[researching]

I'm sorry, I don't understand what ship manifest you're referring to. He was army, not navy. I know his date of birth, his place of birth, his parents' dates and places of birth, I can fill out the letter.

The questions is, do I explain in the letter that his actual date of birth is not the date of birth that he gave them?

I am also aware that 13 is very young, but it was Italy in WW2, they needed soldiers for cannon fodder. I have read stories of many men in many countries using fake or older brother's birth certificates to get in. I even have a picture of him in his uniform. He's just a baby.

I was just wondering if others have a similar story in their family and have already requested military files.

Julie

[Italysearcher]

To get a military record you must know the date of birth and, more importantly the town of birth. The Archive staff do not do research, they do look ups.
The ship manifest I referred to is his entry document for the USA (https://www.libertyellisfoundation.org/)
The age on that document is taken from the travel documents and is usually accurate to within one year.
Is it possible the photo you have is that of a young man in the Fascist youth organization? https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opera_nazionale_balilla

[researching]

I think you may be mistaking me for someone else. I am not American and neither is any of my family.

As I said, I have all of his information, date of Birth, place of Birth, parents' information, extended family.... Who he is and where he is from is not in question. The photo is also very obviously him. Not to mention that I grew up hearing all of the stories.

The question remains the same, do I mention the fact that he gave the wrong date of birth.

[Italysearcher]

Sorry, I made assumptions!
My answer is the same. If you state his correct date of birth, they will look in the wrong place. If you give the date of birth you THINK he might have given, and mention that they probably won't even look.
When you register for the military you have to produce documents. You have to be on the Lista di Leva for the town which is organized by year of birth. If he used a brother's date of birth, (ID card) he would have had to substitute for his brother in the armed forces, which means the brother wouldn't have served. I suppose he could have used the ID of a brother who died but that would be on the list too.
Did you check the links to the Fasciti? They wore uniforms, played at being soldiers etc. Maybe Nonno was just exaggerating the truth.