Proper sequence of document, Apostille, and translation?

[Gags]

Hi All,

Probably a subject beaten to death, but was hoping to get clarification since I've seen conflicting info.

I'm in the process of gathering all docs for a JS appointment in Los Angeles. The majority of my US documents are from NYC with a few exceptions. I have had them certified by the county clerk and they have been Apostille'd by NY State. Now I was going to use a Los Angeles translator recommended by the LA consulate.

The main question is - does the translation normally get included before the Apostille packet is bound?

I wouldn't think so, because the issuing state wouldn't be able to certify the translation. That's why you would used an approved translator. But I've seen conflicting info on this...

Thanks in advance for the help!
Ryan

[jennyct]

I am a 1948 case, so I go to the courts instead of the consulate. I had the translations done separately. They were to be legalized by the consulate, but since mine are translated in Italy, they are certified at the tribunal instead. All my papers are separate.
Now, my cousin (straightforward consulate application) had the translations attached to the original paper and apostilled with the translation (each translation and original as one set, but each different document on it's own packet)

[MuzioJ]

@jennyct where in Italy did you have your documents translated? I’m going to be applying in Rome while I’m there for grad school and need to have certified translations. Thank you!

[ItalianTranslator]

Hi everybody,

if you are applying for JS in a US consulate, apostille is not for translation.
The final bundle will be original certificate + apostille + translation. You can simply email a scan of your records to the translator, who will in turn deliver a PDF in Italian. Some translators prefer to work on the original paper version and they will ask you to mail your translation, to which they will attach their paper translation.

In this case, you can work on translations and apostilles in parallel: scan the certificates and email the scan to the translator, then mail/bring the certs. for apostille at the State Office. This saves time.
You can use any translator you want, not only those listed on the consulate website. Some consulates just list 4 names... I have emailed all Italian consulates in the US to be added but only two replied positively, the others didn't reply at all. None has yet updated their list.

Also, are for translations all records that will be forwarded to Italy (birth, marriage, death, divorce) but not those related to naturalization (nat. certificate, NARA, CONE).

In any case, you can check with your local Italian consulate on their translation requirements as they have a degree of subjectivity in dealing with JS: some consulates ask for in-line relatives documents only, others ask for both lines (LAX), some want the translation to be legalized and apostilled also for use in the US (Boston), some want judgements of divorce to be legalized and apostilled (NY) etc.

I have done translations for each consulate in the US and each has their quirks. On their respective websites there is usually spelled out everything, but sometimes you have to know what to look for to find what you need!

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If you are applying in Italy, or need to have any personal documents translated into Italian for official use, you can have the translation done in the US and then sent to your consulate for validation (visto per traduzione conforme / certificazione di traduzione conforme, €13 per page). Also in this case, although you will need to mail/bring to the consulate the apostilled certificates, only the certificates are for translation, so it is €13 anyway.

Another way would be to have the translation done in Italy and sworn in court. This is called "traduzione giurata". The cost is about €16 each 4 sheets, plus some office tax (a few euros). In this case, the apostille might or might not be translated. Translations sworn in court are text only, so a one-page apostille becomes just a few lines of texts and not necessarily takes up a page. The translator will want to be paid for the time spent to go to court, too.

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As for academic records to study in Italy, you will need to go through the local Italian consulate where you studied for the dichiarazione di valore. Basically, the consulate will say that the high school transcript is genuine and it is a high school transcript. Then you will need to ask for the equivalency either through your Italian university or an independent firm specialized in doing so.
Anyway, for the dichiarazione di valore you will need to bring your transcripts translated to the Italian consulate.I don't think you can skip this step and have simply your records translated in Italy.
Besides the transcript, the consulate will want to see also the grading system and a letter from the school stating the dates of attendance.


Ciao!


Paola

[guidoboston]

Hi Paola, thanks for the great explanation. I am in Boston, so I must have the translations apostilled as you say above. My question is, can I have the original document apostilled in one state (for example NY Birth cert apostilled by NY Dept of State) and the translation done in another state, (Massachusetts, since I live in Boston), then notarized in Mass and finally apostlled by the Mass Dept of State?

[CiaoThina]

Do you happen to know how picky the SF consulate is? I am just now leaving NY after obtaining documents that are certified and apostilled, however I will have to return to NY once my grandma and I obtain her NY birth certificate. All my other documents are from Ca. They already certified (Santa Clara county certifies them upon delivery) but I have yet to travel to Sacramento for their apostilles. I’ll wait if they need translation first.

Also if my parents divorced long after mine & my siblings birth and neither of them are applying for Italian citizenship, is their divorce decree necessary? I was 18 when it was finalized.

[ItalianTranslator]

Hi Paola, thanks for the great explanation. I am in Boston, so I must have the translations apostilled as you say above. My question is, can I have the original document apostilled in one state (for example NY Birth cert apostilled by NY Dept of State) and the translation done in another state, (Massachusetts, since I live in Boston), then notarized in Mass and finally apostlled by the Mass Dept of State?

Hi @guidoboston,

sorry for my late reply. I don't check the forum often.

The translator will need to sign only one affidavit for the whole set of vital records, and I don't think it is an issue whether the affidavit is signed in MA or in another State.
If the affidavit is signed before a MA notary, the apostille can be issued only by the MA State Office; if a NY notary is used, the apostille shall be obtained by the State Office in NY, and so on.

Notaries' signature are on file within the State Office of the Statr where they are registered.

On a side note, the notary simply verifies the identity of the person signing the affidavit, and not their capacity or linguistic skill. In that sense, anybody can sign the affidavit.

[ItalianTranslator]

Do you happen to know how picky the SF consulate is? I am just now leaving NY after obtaining documents that are certified and apostilled, however I will have to return to NY once my grandma and I obtain her NY birth certificate. All my other documents are from Ca. They already certified (Santa Clara county certifies them upon delivery) but I have yet to travel to Sacramento for their apostilles. I’ll wait if they need translation first.

Also if my parents divorced long after mine & my siblings birth and neither of them are applying for Italian citizenship, is their divorce decree necessary? I was 18 when it was finalized.

Hi @CiaoThina,

why are you concerned about pickiness?
Once you documents are properly apostilled and translated, they are good to be submitted.
As for your parents' divorce, I don't think it will be required as it doesn't affect your application, anyway.
If your Italian parent will decide to apply him/herself, then the divorce translation will be certainly required because it is part of their history.

You can order vital records by mail (with the optional apostille), so you don't need to actually travel to NY and Sacramento to get all records ready for submission.

As for translations, since the apostille is not for translation, you can commission the translation as soon as you have the certificate. Most translators work entirely remotely (like me), meaning that you email a scan of your vital records and you get the Italian translation by email, which then you print and bring with you at the appointment.

Paola