Need translation assistance with this death record #13

[jrbak]

I see on the document below, my 2nd great grandfather went by Giovanni Negro rather than Negri but all the documents I see for my great grandfather, Luigi are Negri in Piverone, Italy. When Giovanni is listed on any of them it never asks for his last name so one does not see a change from Negro to Negri. I do see that as you go back further in time (before 1800) there are no Negri's only Negro or Nigra so maybe this is the surname they went by then.

I believe this document is the death record of my 2nd great grandmother, Domenica Bocca (Negri/Negro) in Piverone, Italy. First, do you think I have the correct document as these are the names of my second great grandparents. I find no other record for Domenica Bocca Negri with this exception in 1881 and I know she died prior to 1883. Could someone translate this document for me. I see she and Giovanni were born somewhere else so would you mind translating any other information which would be helpful. I know in Piverone she was listed as a weaver and Giovanni was a farmer.

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1 ... 1292370017

Thank you so very much!
jrbak or Jefferie (female)

[bbivona]

July 31, 1881 at city hall in Piverone appeared Giovanni Negro, age 65, farmer, domiciled in Piverone, and Amedeo Boratto, age 55, farmer, domiciled in Piverone, who declared that at 6:30 a.m. on July 30, 1881 in the home on Via Maestra #81, Domenica Bocca died, seamstress, age 53, resident of Piverone, born in Santhia, daughter of Francesco (Bocca), deceased, landowner, domiciled in life in Santhia and of Agata Brunello, deceased, domiciled in life in Santhia. The deceased was the wife of Givoanni Negro.

[jrbak]

Dear bbviona,
Thank you so much for the translation of this record for me. I wish I could find the death record for Giovanni Negro/Negri in Piverone as that might help me with the decision as to whether or not this is the record of my 2nd greatgrands although I believe it is. I have not uncovered it yet however there are several death records for Giovanni Negri but I do not think they are my relations although I could be wrong.

Can you answer a quick question and that is, when it says "domiciled in Piverone" this means lived in Piverone, right? and when it says "domiciled in life in Piverone", this means they lived their entire life in Piverone, meaning they were born and raised their too? Can you correct me if I am wrong. Thank you so much!

Have a good afternoon and thank you again.
jrbak or Jefferie

[bbivona]

Can you answer a quick question and that is, when it says "domiciled in Piverone" this means lived in Piverone, right? and when it says "domiciled in life in Piverone", this means they lived their entire life in Piverone, meaning they were born and raised their too? Can you correct me if I am wrong. Thank you so much!

When it says domiciled in Piverone it generally means living there when the document was created. When it says "domiciled in life in Piverone" it generally means that he was deceased when the document was created, but at the time his of death was a resident of Piverone. You can't infer more than that from the document itself. People generally didn't move around a whole lot back then, so they may well have lived their whole lives there, but you can't be sure without more data. Some documents (like this one for some of the parties) list a place of birth, which will state "nato a/in Santhia". (born in Santhia.)

[AngelaGrace56]

Dear bbviona,
Thank you so much for the translation of this record for me. I wish I could find the death record for Giovanni Negro/Negri in Piverone as that might help me with the decision as to whether or not this is the record of my 2nd greatgrands although I believe it is. I have not uncovered it yet however there are several death records for Giovanni Negri but I do not think they are my relations although I could be wrong.

Can you answer a quick question and that is, when it says "domiciled in Piverone" this means lived in Piverone, right? and when it says "domiciled in life in Piverone", this means they lived their entire life in Piverone, meaning they were born and raised their too? Can you correct me if I am wrong. Thank you so much!

Have a good afternoon and thank you again.
jrbak or Jefferie

Yes, this is your Domenica Bocca. If you click on the following link you will see that I had already found the Death Records of both your Domenica Bocca and your Giovanni Negri during the week: https://www.italiangenealogy.com/forum/language/45757

I will post the 1893 Death Record details of Giovanni Negri here again. He died in 1893.

1893 Death Record No 4 Giovanni Negri (father of Luigi Negri) son of deceased Giuseppe:

Giovanni Negri, 75 yo, contadino (peasant), born and residing Piverone, was the son of the deceased Giuseppe Negri and of the deceased Paola Benedetto who both lived in Piverone in life. He was the widow of Domenica Bocca. He died on 24 January 1893. 

So here you go back one more generation to Giuseppe Negri and Paola Benedetto.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cc=1475996

Before locating these two records I spent ages reading through all your threads here on the forum and making notes to see why you were having difficulties. It's unfortunate you didn't read what I had found. (I did mention on another thread as well that I had found these records and sent you the link. You may not have read that either.)

Best to you.

Angela

[jrbak]

Dear Angela,
Thank you so very much for all the work you have done on locating these records for me. I had come across Domenico Bocca Negri's but wasn't quite certain that this was in fact my relative. I had not read any of your responses to me until yesterday and I am sorry that I could not respond because I did not have the time. I know you spent so much time going through all the old posts (many of which were incorrect) and I thank you. I have learned from each though.

I do need to slow down and go through all the steps as you say and stay on one line until the end. I did find on Luigi Negri's baptismal record at the very bottom was the name Gioanni Negro and above it was Giovanni Negri so I think he used these interchangeably. I am placing these documents in family tree maker as I go so now I am able to tell who is who and that I have documentation for all the necessary documents for each person; ie. birth, death, matrimony etc.

Wow!! How exciting to go back this many generations too. I don't think unless some one has a family Bible (Italy relatives) that they know all of this even in Italy. I would be delighted to learn that maybe we could be relatives but like you say maybe a long shot; my aunt in New York (a Negri) married my uncle ( an Armato from Southern Italy).

Thank you for so much help always!!
Best Regards
jrbak- jefferie

[jrbak]

Dear bbviona,
Thank you for your explanation on the terminology of the "domiciled in Piverone" and "domiciled in life in Piverone". I did not see this until this morning so did not have a chance to thank you yet. I would have gone on assuming what I thought if you had not told me otherwise. I am happy I asked the question;maybe this will help others too.
Have a good day,
jrbak orJefferie

[AngelaGrace56]

Dear Angela,
Thank you so very much for all the work you have done on locating these records for me. I had come across Domenico Bocca Negri's but wasn't quite certain that this was in fact my relative. I had not read any of your responses to me until yesterday and I am sorry that I could not respond because I did not have the time. I know you spent so much time going through all the old posts (many of which were incorrect) and I thank you. I have learned from each though.

I do need to slow down and go through all the steps as you say and stay on one line until the end. I did find on Luigi Negri's baptismal record at the very bottom was the name Gioanni Negro and above it was Giovanni Negri so I think he used these interchangeably. I am placing these documents in family tree maker as I go so now I am able to tell who is who and that I have documentation for all the necessary documents for each person; ie. birth, death, matrimony etc.

Wow!! How exciting to go back this many generations too. I don't think unless some one has a family Bible (Italy relatives) that they know all of this even in Italy. I would be delighted to learn that maybe we could be relatives but like you say maybe a long shot; my aunt in New York (a Negri) married my uncle ( an Armato from Southern Italy).

Thank you for so much help always!!
Best Regards
jrbak- jefferie

Happy to help. Finding the actual records didn't take so long as there are really good indices there. It was getting a grip on which of the records that you had posted for translations were actually relevant to your history which took some time. Once I had read through all the posts, from the beginning, and made notes and written up a dummy pedigree I knew I was on the right track. Anyways, I'm pleased it's proved to be a good learning exercise.

Re the name Negro/Negri, hopefully this won't confuse the issue, but when I was working on my history the other day I noticed that my names that interchange were actually spelt "Nigro/Nigri" and not "Negro/Negri" as yours are. They possibly may have originally been foundling names???? or nicknames given to those with a darker complexion??? I've never really looked at the origin of the name closely.

Best to you.

Angela