My understanding is that parte II (part 2) birth records are for special circumstances like foundlings. What other types of special births are there?
Also, I see plenty of parte II death records...what would be the distinguishment here?
What are parte II (part 2) records for?
-
AngelaGrace56
- Master
- Posts: 7740
- Joined: 16 Oct 2012, 10:54
Re: What are parte II (part 2) records for?
The following is a really good and comprehensive explanation about Part 2 documents, written by Carubia, one of our forum members:
"The purpose of the Part II records is to record events that don't fit into the templates in Part I. For example, for death records in Part I, the format presupposes that 2 people have reported the death. If that's not how the civil records office was informed, the template can't be used.
The normal format for birth records in Part I, after 1874, was to given the details of the person reporting the birth, the time and place of the birth, and the parents' info, followed by the witnesses and the signatures. Situations that don't conform to this were put in part I. Some officials made more efforts to squeeze records into this template, so record types that in one town would be in Part II may be in Part I in a different town.
Here are some types of events that would typically show up in Part II births:
1. Births of foundlings. These records would include who found the baby and where and when, approximately how old the baby was, what the baby was wearing, what name the official was giving to the baby (and the fact that the official was legally authorized to do so), and into whose care the baby was being entrusted (i.e. the wetnurse). Typically these records contain much more information that could be put in Part I, but we did see examples here in Barcellona Pozzo di Gotto recently where they managed to put births of foundlings into Part I by reporting them a bit differently.
2. Corrections to birth records. To correct an error in a record, well after the event, a court order was usually required. Then someone would take that court order to the civil records office and they'd make an entry in Part II. Something may also have been written into the margin of the original birth record.
3. Recognitions of paternity/maternity. When a child was born with unknown father or mother (or both), the unknown parent could come to the civil records office and acknowledge paternity/maternity. A record would be created in Part II and a marginal note may be added to the original record.
4. Births outside the town, to people domiciled in the town, would be reported in Part II. Every Italian citizen has an official place of domicile. Even if you reside somewhere else temporary, your domicile doesn't necessarily change. For example, if you are in the military, or prison, or residing abroad, you'd still be domiciled wherever you were living before. In the early 20th c., it was typical to see births in Tunisia reported in part II records in Italy.
5. Delayed reports of birth. If a birth was reported very late, years after the fact, a court order may be required to create a record, and then a Part II entry would be created. Often unreported births would be reported when someone was trying to get married and needed a birth certificate. It wasn't always the case that these births would be in Part II, though. I've seen Part I records for births even 20 years after the event.
6. Stillbirths. Before 1866 it was common to see these in the Diversi records, which functioned like the Part II records after 1875, except that births, marriages, and deaths were all combined. After 1866, though, I see these records mixed in with the ordinary Part I births.
Part II death records would typically contain deaths that were not reported by 2 people within the town, but rather by a letter from an official from somewhere else, such as another town or a provincial official. These typically covered deaths of people domiciled in the town but residing somewhere else, including deaths in the military, in prison, or of people residing abroad. People who died in the countryside were on occasion included, too. Also, executions and sometimes other violent deaths were included in the Diversi records before 1866.
Part II marriage records typically covered marriages that occurred somewhere else (another town, another country) where at least one of the bride or groom was residing in the town in question, or sometimes even had only previously lived there. Another type of marriage that showed up in Part II records after 1874 was one where a doctors note was submitted to the town hall, saying that the groom or bride was too sick to come to the town hall, so that they would be able to hold the wedding at someone's private house instead. (Note that the format for marriage records after 1874 presupposes that the wedding occurred at the town hall.)
In 1865 a new Civil Code for Italy was enacted. As part of this, the role of the church was removed from civil records. Thus new templates were required, but it took a while before they became available (e.g., 1875 in Sicily), so between 1866 and 1874 records were all handwritten, without templates. Thus there was no need for Part II records during this period."
Link to thread: https://www.italiangenealogy.com/forum/ ... II#p269253
Angela
"The purpose of the Part II records is to record events that don't fit into the templates in Part I. For example, for death records in Part I, the format presupposes that 2 people have reported the death. If that's not how the civil records office was informed, the template can't be used.
The normal format for birth records in Part I, after 1874, was to given the details of the person reporting the birth, the time and place of the birth, and the parents' info, followed by the witnesses and the signatures. Situations that don't conform to this were put in part I. Some officials made more efforts to squeeze records into this template, so record types that in one town would be in Part II may be in Part I in a different town.
Here are some types of events that would typically show up in Part II births:
1. Births of foundlings. These records would include who found the baby and where and when, approximately how old the baby was, what the baby was wearing, what name the official was giving to the baby (and the fact that the official was legally authorized to do so), and into whose care the baby was being entrusted (i.e. the wetnurse). Typically these records contain much more information that could be put in Part I, but we did see examples here in Barcellona Pozzo di Gotto recently where they managed to put births of foundlings into Part I by reporting them a bit differently.
2. Corrections to birth records. To correct an error in a record, well after the event, a court order was usually required. Then someone would take that court order to the civil records office and they'd make an entry in Part II. Something may also have been written into the margin of the original birth record.
3. Recognitions of paternity/maternity. When a child was born with unknown father or mother (or both), the unknown parent could come to the civil records office and acknowledge paternity/maternity. A record would be created in Part II and a marginal note may be added to the original record.
4. Births outside the town, to people domiciled in the town, would be reported in Part II. Every Italian citizen has an official place of domicile. Even if you reside somewhere else temporary, your domicile doesn't necessarily change. For example, if you are in the military, or prison, or residing abroad, you'd still be domiciled wherever you were living before. In the early 20th c., it was typical to see births in Tunisia reported in part II records in Italy.
5. Delayed reports of birth. If a birth was reported very late, years after the fact, a court order may be required to create a record, and then a Part II entry would be created. Often unreported births would be reported when someone was trying to get married and needed a birth certificate. It wasn't always the case that these births would be in Part II, though. I've seen Part I records for births even 20 years after the event.
6. Stillbirths. Before 1866 it was common to see these in the Diversi records, which functioned like the Part II records after 1875, except that births, marriages, and deaths were all combined. After 1866, though, I see these records mixed in with the ordinary Part I births.
Part II death records would typically contain deaths that were not reported by 2 people within the town, but rather by a letter from an official from somewhere else, such as another town or a provincial official. These typically covered deaths of people domiciled in the town but residing somewhere else, including deaths in the military, in prison, or of people residing abroad. People who died in the countryside were on occasion included, too. Also, executions and sometimes other violent deaths were included in the Diversi records before 1866.
Part II marriage records typically covered marriages that occurred somewhere else (another town, another country) where at least one of the bride or groom was residing in the town in question, or sometimes even had only previously lived there. Another type of marriage that showed up in Part II records after 1874 was one where a doctors note was submitted to the town hall, saying that the groom or bride was too sick to come to the town hall, so that they would be able to hold the wedding at someone's private house instead. (Note that the format for marriage records after 1874 presupposes that the wedding occurred at the town hall.)
In 1865 a new Civil Code for Italy was enacted. As part of this, the role of the church was removed from civil records. Thus new templates were required, but it took a while before they became available (e.g., 1875 in Sicily), so between 1866 and 1874 records were all handwritten, without templates. Thus there was no need for Part II records during this period."
Link to thread: https://www.italiangenealogy.com/forum/ ... II#p269253
Angela
-
turkeytrot
- Newbie
- Posts: 15
- Joined: 03 Apr 2019, 20:32
Re: What are parte II (part 2) records for?
This is exactly what I was looking for. I did try to search the forum first, but the search isn't the greatest.
I am curious though about the people who are witnesses. In my experience, I can't recall a single record I have where a witness was a family member or a name I recognized. I'm generally curious as to the relationship that witnesses tend to have to the subject of the record. Are they more generally neighbors or friends or civic or religious leaders?
I am curious though about the people who are witnesses. In my experience, I can't recall a single record I have where a witness was a family member or a name I recognized. I'm generally curious as to the relationship that witnesses tend to have to the subject of the record. Are they more generally neighbors or friends or civic or religious leaders?
-
AngelaGrace56
- Master
- Posts: 7740
- Joined: 16 Oct 2012, 10:54
Re: What are parte II (part 2) records for?
No, the witnesses generally were not related to the person, and may not even have been known to them. Mostly they were just people, of no particular status, who happened to be at the Town Hall, at the time of the declaration of the event (death, birth etc) and were available to act as "witnesses" to the declaration and recording of the respective Act.turkeytrot wrote: 17 Sep 2019, 15:55 This is exactly what I was looking for. I did try to search the forum first, but the search isn't the greatest.
I am curious though about the people who are witnesses. In my experience, I can't recall a single record I have where a witness was a family member or a name I recognized. I'm generally curious as to the relationship that witnesses tend to have to the subject of the record. Are they more generally neighbors or friends or civic or religious leaders?
Angela
