Baptismal Names

[scraig32]

I am fascinated with Italian naming traditions and the wealth of ancestral knowledge that can be learned simply by knowing someone’s full name. As I understand it,

First male is named after paternal grandfather
First female is named after paternal grandmother
Second male is named after maternal grandfather
Second female is named after maternal grandmother

My question is about a child’s full name listed on their baptismal record. The ancestor in question has 7 names. I was wondering if there is an Italian naming tradition that pertains to baptismal names.

Hyppolita Melchiora Massa Teodosia Provvidenza Napolitano Perez is the name listed on my ancestor’s baptismal record.

Further insight about Hyppolita (baptized baby)

Ippolita (Latin Hyppolita) is daughter #1 of Marianna.
Marianna’s birth record lists- unknown mother and wealthy (unnamed) father, unmarried
Marianna’s death record lists parents as Provvidenza & Nico
Marianna has two daughters- #1 Ippolita #2 Teodosia


Below is what I have deduced thus far as to the meaning behind the 7 names given at baptism. Any further insight is greatly appreciated as I am hoping that through understanding her full name I might be able to fill in the gaps, or at least make an educated guess, as to the rest of my family tree.

1. Hyppolita (Latin for Ippolita ) was her paternal grandmother’s name
2. Melchiora- name of the godmother
3. Massa- this was the last name of the godmother, but was wondering if the 3rd name was typically the last name of the godparent or if this name was used under another rule
4. Teodosia- I have a guess at this name but am wondering if this name would be the name of the maternal grandmother. The child in this instance is the 1st daughter. The second daughter, this child’s little sister, is named Teodosia. So, using the Italian naming tradition, Teodosia would be the name of the maternal grandmother. Any thoughts?
5. Provvidenza- In general, is there a rule for who the 5th name comes from? In this case, the baptized child’s mother was raised by a woman named Provvidenza. I can not confirm or deny if this Provvidenza was the birth mother or if she was a relative/ adoptive mother who raised the child’s mother. In either case, Provvidenza, whether by blood or by some other means, was the baptized child’s grandmother.
6. Napolitano- this is the surname of the mother
7.Perez- this is the surname of the father

Further insight into this family.


I am hoping that rules of baptismal naming will help me to guess who the maternal grandmother might be even though her name is not listed on the child’s mother’s birth record. Any and all insight is greatly appreciated!!!

[MarcuccioV]

In my Italian family (my maternal side), it didn't work that way. In a few cases, yes, but for the most part, at least as far back as I can research, there are an awful lot of names (both male & female) that do not repeat for several gens back (and most not at all). This includes siblings and not just my direct relatives. For example, my grandfather's name (Agostino) is found in no previous gen & he was the only male of 7 kids (this applies to HIS father as well). The same applies to all of his sisters (AND their mother). Same rules apply for my grandmother's family, albeit to some degree less.

So although this may be a tradition in some towns or families, it is by no means a rule to "guess" by unless that pattern already exists in known generations...

[scraig32]

In my Italian family (my maternal side), it didn't work that way. In a few cases, yes, but for the most part, at least as far back as I can research, there are an awful lot of names (both male & female) that do not repeat for several gens back (and most not at all). This includes siblings and not just my direct relatives. For example, my grandfather's name (Agostino) is found in no previous gen & he was the only male of 7 kids (this applies to HIS father as well). The same applies to all of his sisters (AND their mother). Same rules apply for my grandmother's family, albeit to some degree less.

So although this may be a tradition in some towns or families, it is by no means a rule to "guess" by unless that pattern already exists in known generations...

Thank you for sharing this with me. I was hoping my family followed the tradition but I can see that families did not always do so.

[darkerhorse]

One complicating factor is that first names were often reused when a child died.

So, a male named after his paternal grandfather might not have been the first born son, etc.

I've seen an example where the first name was recycled three times. It was the name of a deceased uncle, apparently being honored.

[darkerhorse]

For example, my grandfather's name (Agostino) is found in no previous gen & he was the only male of 7 kids (this applies to HIS father as well).

Have you considered that your grandfather may have been adopted, hence the unique name and appearance?

[MarcuccioV]

For example, my grandfather's name (Agostino) is found in no previous gen & he was the only male of 7 kids (this applies to HIS father as well).

Have you considered that your grandfather may have been adopted, hence the unique name and appearance?

No, I have his birth act. And I knew one of his sisters, they resembled each other.

[AngelaGrace56]

I am fascinated with Italian naming traditions and the wealth of ancestral knowledge that can be learned simply by knowing someone’s full name. As I understand it,

First male is named after paternal grandfather
First female is named after paternal grandmother
Second male is named after maternal grandfather
Second female is named after maternal grandmother

My question is about a child’s full name listed on their baptismal record. The ancestor in question has 7 names. I was wondering if there is an Italian naming tradition that pertains to baptismal names.

Hyppolita Melchiora Massa Teodosia Provvidenza Napolitano Perez is the name listed on my ancestor’s baptismal record.

Hi Suzanne

Here is a copy of Ippolita Perez’s baptism record which I located on another thread amongst marriage allegati:
https://www.antenati.san.beniculturali. ... 02/w6qRmWN

I am reading different to what you have understood. From what I can see, she was given four names Hippolyta (Ippolita), Melchiora, Teodosia, Providenza. The names that follow would be the names of her two godparents and not her names. She was the daughter of D. Antonino Perez and Maria Anna Napolitano as you know, and born 1819, a year before civil records began in Palermo. Is this the same baptism record you have? You can repost this record as a Latin record and ask for a translation on translation section. You could ask for both a Latin transcript and the translation to English, just to be sure in case I’ve misread or it says anything else important. I don’t read Latin – I just dabble occasionally.

Re your question here re “Baptismal Names”. From what I have seen – the naming tradition on baptism records, prior to Civil Records, was no different to what you have described here i.e. "First male named after paternal grandfather ...etc". Post Civil Records, the names given on Baptism Records generally duplicated/matched what was on the Civil Records, so once again, same tradition.

Angela

[scraig32]

I am fascinated with Italian naming traditions and the wealth of ancestral knowledge that can be learned simply by knowing someone’s full name. As I understand it,

First male is named after paternal grandfather
First female is named after paternal grandmother
Second male is named after maternal grandfather
Second female is named after maternal grandmother

My question is about a child’s full name listed on their baptismal record. The ancestor in question has 7 names. I was wondering if there is an Italian naming tradition that pertains to baptismal names.

Hyppolita Melchiora Massa Teodosia Provvidenza Napolitano Perez is the name listed on my ancestor’s baptismal record.

Hi Suzanne

Here is a copy of Ippolita Perez’s baptism record which I located on another thread amongst marriage allegati:
https://www.antenati.san.beniculturali. ... 02/w6qRmWN

I am reading different to what you have understood. From what I can see, she was given four names Hippolyta (Ippolita), Melchiora, Teodosia, Providenza. The names that follow would be the names of her two godparents and not her names. She was the daughter of D. Antonino Perez and Maria Anna Napolitano as you know, and born 1819, a year before civil records began in Palermo. Is this the same baptism record you have? You can repost this record as a Latin record and ask for a translation on translation section. You could ask for both a Latin transcript and the translation to English, just to be sure in case I’ve misread or it says anything else important. I don’t read Latin – I just dabble occasionally.

Re your question here re “Baptismal Names”. From what I have seen – the naming tradition on baptism records, prior to Civil Records, was no different to what you have described here i.e. "First male named after paternal grandfather ...etc". Post Civil Records, the names given on Baptism Records generally duplicated/matched what was on the Civil Records, so once again, same tradition.

Angela

Hi Angela! Yes, you are correct- I don’t know what I was thinking. Her name is clearly

Hyppolita (Ippolita) Melchiora Teodosia Provvidenza! When I set my research aside for a bit it gets all jumbled in my head! Thank you for catching this for me. As you know, I know she was named Ippolita after her paternal grandmother and Melchiora was her godmother. I wish I could figure where she got the other two names. My hunch is that Teodosia was the name of her maternal grandmother (because Ippolita’s younger sister was named Teodosia) so there seems to be a family connection with that name. Similarly, I feel the same about Provvidenza. Oh how I wish we could see those 1819 and earlier Palermo records!!! As always, I value your help immensely!

[scraig32]

I am fascinated with Italian naming traditions and the wealth of ancestral knowledge that can be learned simply by knowing someone’s full name. As I understand it,

First male is named after paternal grandfather
First female is named after paternal grandmother
Second male is named after maternal grandfather
Second female is named after maternal grandmother

My question is about a child’s full name listed on their baptismal record. The ancestor in question has severak names. I was wondering if there is an Italian naming tradition that pertains to baptismal names.

Edited:
Hyppolita Melchiora Teodosia Provvidenza is the name listed on my ancestor’s baptismal record.

Further insight about Hyppolita (baptized baby)

Ippolita (Latin Hyppolita) is daughter #1 of Marianna.
Marianna’s birth record lists- unknown mother and wealthy (unnamed) father, unmarried
Marianna’s death record lists parents as Provvidenza & Nico
Marianna has two daughters- #1 Ippolita #2 Teodosia


Below is what I have deduced thus far as to the meaning behind the 7 names given at baptism. Any further insight is greatly appreciated as I am hoping that through understanding her full name I might be able to fill in the gaps, or at least make an educated guess, as to the rest of my family tree.

Edited:
1. Hyppolita (Latin for Ippolita ) was her maternal great grandmother’s name, who’s son was Prince Salvatore Massa.
2. Melchiora- name of the godmother
3. Teodosia- paternal grandmother
4. Provvidenza- Could this be after a maternal grandmother? the baptized child’s mother was raised by a woman named Provvidenza. I can not confirm or deny if this Provvidenza was the birth mother or if she was a relative/ adoptive mother or a great aunt who raised the child’s mother. In either case, Provvidenza, whether by blood or by some other means, was the baptized child’s grandmother.

I am thinking that because the child’s maternal grandfather had no legitimate children, in an attempt to “legitimize” or acknowledge her as his only grandchild, the family started the naming tradition with her and not her illegitamate mother. Perhaps then, in a nod to the woman who raised (or birthed) the illegitamte mother, her name, Provvidenza was given to the child.



I am hoping that rules of baptismal naming will help me to guess who the maternal grandmother might be even though her name is not listed on the child’s mother’s birth record. Any and all insight is greatly appreciated!!!

[scraig32]

I am fascinated with Italian naming traditions and the wealth of ancestral knowledge that can be learned simply by knowing someone’s full name. As I understand it,

First male is named after paternal grandfather
First female is named after paternal grandmother
Second male is named after maternal grandfather
Second female is named after maternal grandmother

My question is about a child’s full name listed on their baptismal record. The ancestor in question has severak names. I was wondering if there is an Italian naming tradition that pertains to baptismal names.

Edited:
Hyppolita Melchiora Teodosia Provvidenza is the name listed on my ancestor’s baptismal record.

Further insight about Hyppolita (baptized baby)

Ippolita (Latin Hyppolita) is daughter #1 of Marianna.
Marianna’s birth record lists- unknown mother and wealthy (unnamed) father, unmarried
Marianna’s death record lists parents as Provvidenza & Nico
Marianna has two daughters- #1 Ippolita #2 Teodosia


Below is what I have deduced thus far as to the meaning behind the 7 names given at baptism. Any further insight is greatly appreciated as I am hoping that through understanding her full name I might be able to fill in the gaps, or at least make an educated guess, as to the rest of my family tree.

Edited:
1. Hyppolita (Latin for Ippolita ) was her maternal great grandmother’s name, who’s son was Prince Salvatore Massa.
2. Melchiora- name of the godmother
3. Teodosia- paternal grandmother
4. Provvidenza- Could this be after a maternal grandmother? the baptized child’s mother was raised by a woman named Provvidenza. I can not confirm or deny if this Provvidenza was the birth mother or if she was a relative/ adoptive mother or a great aunt who raised the child’s mother. In either case, Provvidenza, whether by blood or by some other means, was the baptized child’s grandmother.

I am thinking that because the child’s maternal grandfather had no legitimate children, in an attempt to “legitimize” or acknowledge her as his only grandchild, the family started the naming tradition with her and not her illegitamate mother. Perhaps then, in a nod to the woman who raised (or birthed) the illegitamte mother, her name, Provvidenza was given to the child.



I am hoping that rules of baptismal naming will help me to guess who the maternal grandmother might be even though her name is not listed on the child’s mother’s birth record. Any and all insight is greatly appreciated!!!

Angela- I went back over everything and realized that I was off a generation. I have updated my original post here. In doing so, I realized that she was given the name Teodosia after her paternal grandmother. It seems as though, because her great grandfather, Prince Massa, who had no legitimate children of his own (Ippolita’s mother,Marianna was his illegitamte daughter) in an attempt to recognize the baby Ippolita, the naming tradition was started with her in somewhat of a different order. But I can clearly see that the family applied naming traditions here. In this way, I feel better about guessing that the name Provvidenza was of importance- probably coming from the maternal side. Thank you for following along as the story continues……..Suzanne