Help tracing 98cm DNA match likely on my great grandfathers line

[lyn1982]

I have a 98cm dna match and I'm trying to find how we're related. They match as 2nd cousins, at 196cms with a 38cm match of mine. I found their common ancestors. They are
Antonio Rizzo 1855–1937 and Maria Lombardo 1857–1933 Those are my 38cm matches great great grandparents and the 98cm matches grandparents. 98cm match died years ago in their 90s, only recently been able to trace them thanks to the 38cm match.

I'm very confused because I can't find any common ancestors and I think people may have the wrong info in their trees or something.

They got in their trees that Antonino's parents are
Mariano Rizzo
1822–1885

Agostina Marina Navarra
1832–1884

and that he was born Sep 12, 1855. But that seems to be wrong because I found this birth record on ancestry with matching birthday listing parents as Giuseppe Rizzo and Lucia Scarpace:

Antonino Rizzo
Gender Male
Birth Date 12 set 1855 (12 Sep 1855)
Birth Place Termini Imerese, Palermo, Italy
Father Giuseppe Rizzo
Mother Lucia Scarpace
FHL Film Number 1688282
Reference ID it 1 p 52 cn 450

I tried to look here for Antonino's birth: https://antenati.cultura.gov.it/ark:/12 ... 55/Logd82V but it seems most of the records are not indexed as you can see. Does anyone know of a way how to find it from the info on the above record? I'm hoping his birth will have a notation of it as to who he married to in order clear up if people have the right parents for him.

The Mariano Rizzo and Agostina Navarra that people are listing in their trees did have a son Antonino as well but he was born 24 Jan 1854, also in Termini Imerese.

There is also information on find a grave stating that Antonino's birth was
12 Sep 1855
Belluno Veronese, Provincia di Verona, Veneto, Italy https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/755 ... onio_rizzo that I think is definitely incorrect.

People also have Antonino as having a son Joseph born 31 OCT 1885 and a daughter born 25 JAN 1886 which is impossible if from same mother. My 98cm DNA match is descended from that Joseph.

Can somebody please help me clear up who both Antonino's married so that I can trace the correct line? I'm guessing since it's a 98cm match I should be finding a common surname in the next generation. Wouldn't think it would be back that far but guess it must be. I also have a 139cm match shared with the 98cm match but am unable to trace them.

There is also conflicting information in trees on Maria Lombardo's parents. Some are listing them as
Giuseppe Lombardo (1843-1882
Domenica Falsone (Born 1848 and some as Giuseppe Lombardo (1813-1861) and Antonino Gaglione (1846-1922).

If it's the Falzone one this would be a major breakthrough for me because that leads back to an Antonino Falsone who was born 31 MAR 1828 • Girgenti, Agrigento, Sicily, Italy. That would mean these matches link back to my great grandfather's Agrigento dna matches and that they're on his line. I originally when tracing this match though it was on my great grandmothers line as she was born in Cerda which is near Termini Immerse.

[koalasteadfast]

The birth record you found for Antonino Rizzo with parents Giuseppe Rizzo and Lucia Scarpace is an excellent starting point. Given that there’s a potential discrepancy in the ancestry trees with another Antonino born to Mariano Rizzo and Agostina Navarra, it’s crucial to establish the correct lineage.

Review Birth Records: Use the information from the birth record you found on Ancestry to search the Antenati portal. While not all records are indexed, you can manually browse the 1855 records for Termini Imerese.

Steps to find the birth record manually:

Go to the Antenati portal: Antenati Portal
Navigate to the “Stato Civile della Restaurazione” for Termini Imerese.
Select the year 1855 and browse through the birth records (Nati) to find the entry for Antonino Rizzo born on 12 September 1855.
2. Marriage Records
Marriage records can provide critical information about spouses and parents, helping to clarify family connections.

Search for Marriage Records: Check both the Antenati portal and FamilySearch for marriage records of Antonino Rizzo. These records might include notations about parents and previous marriages.

Steps on FamilySearch:

Go to FamilySearch.
Search for Antonino Rizzo in the "Search Historical Records" section.
Filter results by location (Termini Imerese) and event type (Marriage).
Cross-Check Other Sources
Find A Grave: The Find A Grave entry you mentioned has conflicting information. Always cross-check these details with primary sources like civil records. The birth in Belluno Veronese is likely incorrect as it doesn't align with other information you have.
4. Analyze DNA Matches
Understanding DNA Centimorgans (cM): A 98 cM match could indicate a second to third cousin relationship, meaning you share great-grandparents or great-great-grandparents.
Shared Matches: Use shared matches to triangulate and understand how other matches might fit into the family tree.
5. Verify Maria Lombardo’s Parents
Two Possible Parent Sets: To resolve the conflicting information about Maria Lombardo’s parents, look for her birth, marriage, and death records.

Steps:

Search both sets of possible parents (Giuseppe Lombardo and Domenica Falsone vs. Giuseppe Lombardo and Antonino Gaglione) in the same way as above.
Marriage records can be especially helpful as they often list both sets of parents.

[NaomiFowler]

I have a 98cm dna match and I'm trying to find how we're related. They match as 2nd cousins, at 196cms with a 38cm match of mine. I found their common ancestors. They are
Antonio Rizzo 1855–1937 and Maria Lombardo 1857–1933 Those are my 38cm matches great great grandparents and the 98cm matches grandparents. 98cm match died years ago in their 90s, only recently been able to trace them thanks to the 38cm match.

I'm very confused because I can't find any common ancestors and I think people may have the wrong info in their trees or something.

They got in their trees that Antonino's parents are
Mariano Rizzo
1822–1885

Agostina Marina Navarra
1832–1884

and that he was born Sep 12, 1855. But that seems to be wrong because I found this birth record on ancestry with matching birthday listing parents as Giuseppe Rizzo and Lucia Scarpace:

Antonino Rizzo
Gender Male
Birth Date 12 set 1855 (12 Sep 1855)
Birth Place Termini Imerese, Palermo, Italy
Father Giuseppe Rizzo
Mother Lucia Scarpace
FHL Film Number 1688282
Reference ID it 1 p 52 cn 450

I tried to look here for Antonino's birth: https://antenati.cultura.gov.it/ark:/12 ... 55/Logd82V but it seems most of the records are not indexed as you can see. Does anyone know of a way how to find it from the info on the above record? I'm hoping his birth will have a notation of it as to who he married to in order clear up if people have the right parents for him.

The Mariano Rizzo and Agostina Navarra that people are listing in their trees did have a son Antonino as well but he was born 24 Jan 1854, also in Termini Imerese.

There is also information on find a grave stating that Antonino's birth was
12 Sep 1855
Belluno Veronese, Provincia di Verona, Veneto, Italy https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/755 ... onio_rizzopapers, please that I think is definitely incorrect.

People also have Antonino as having a son Joseph born 31 OCT 1885 and a daughter born 25 JAN 1886 which is impossible if from same mother. My 98cm DNA match is descended from that Joseph.

Can somebody please help me clear up who both Antonino's married so that I can trace the correct line? I'm guessing since it's a 98cm match I should be finding a common surname in the next generation. Wouldn't think it would be back that far but guess it must be. I also have a 139cm match shared with the 98cm match but am unable to trace them.

There is also conflicting information in trees on Maria Lombardo's parents. Some are listing them as
Giuseppe Lombardo (1843-1882
Domenica Falsone (Born 1848 and some as Giuseppe Lombardo (1813-1861) and Antonino Gaglione (1846-1922).

If it's the Falzone one this would be a major breakthrough for me because that leads back to an Antonino Falsone who was born 31 MAR 1828 • Girgenti, Agrigento, Sicily, Italy. That would mean these matches link back to my great grandfather's Agrigento dna matches and that they're on his line. I originally when tracing this match though it was on my great grandmothers line as she was born in Cerda which is near Termini Immerse.

You're dealing with a complex case of conflicting genealogical records and DNA matches, but you're on the right track by questioning existing family trees. Here’s how you can proceed to clarify the relationships:

Confirm Antonino Rizzo’s Parents
Conflicting Parentage:
Some trees list Mariano Rizzo & Agostina Navarra (son Antonino born 24 Jan 1854).
The birth record you found lists Giuseppe Rizzo & Lucia Scarpace (Antonino born 12 Sep 1855).
The Find-a-Grave listing stating Belluno Veronese is almost certainly incorrect, as it contradicts both birth records.
Action:

Look for marriage records of both Antonino Rizzos in Termini Imerese.
Check civil death records—they sometimes list parents and spouses.
Confirm Who Antonino Married
The 98cm match descends from Joseph Rizzo (b. 31 Oct 1885), so you need to confirm whether this Joseph is the son of the 1854 Antonino or the 1855 Antonino.
Look for baptismal or birth records for Joseph Rizzo, which should list his parents.
Check Termini Imerese marriage records for Antonino Rizzo & Maria Lombardo to verify which Antonino married her.
Clarify Maria Lombardo’s Parentage
Conflicting parents:
Giuseppe Lombardo (1843-1882) & Domenica Falsone (b. 1848)
Giuseppe Lombardo (1813-1861) & Antonino Gaglione (1846-1922) (which seems unlikely since Antonino is a male name).
Action:

Search for Maria Lombardo’s birth record (~1857) in Termini Imerese. This should list her parents.
If her mother was Domenica Falsone, you can connect this line to your Agrigento matches and confirm the DNA connection to your great-grandfather.
Step 4: Use DNA Clustering
If you have access to tools like DNA Painter’s Shared cM Project, you can estimate your relationship with the 98cm and 139cm matches.
Use Ancestry’s ThruLines (if available) or GEDmatch clustering to identify shared surnames among your matches.

[lyn1982]

The birth record you found for Antonino Rizzo with parents Giuseppe Rizzo and Lucia Scarpace is an excellent starting point. Given that there’s a potential discrepancy in the ancestry trees with another Antonino born to Mariano Rizzo and Agostina Navarra, it’s crucial to establish the correct lineage.

Review Birth Records: Use the information from the birth record you found on Ancestry to search the Antenati portal. While not all records are indexed, you can manually browse the 1855 records for Termini Imerese.

Steps to find the birth record manually:

Go to the Antenati portal: Antenati Portal
Navigate to the “Stato Civile della Restaurazione” for Termini Imerese.
Select the year 1855 and browse through the birth records (Nati) to find the entry for Antonino Rizzo born on 12 September 1855.
2. Marriage Records
Marriage records can provide critical information about spouses and parents, helping to clarify family connections.

Search for Marriage Records: Check both the Antenati portal and FamilySearch for marriage records of Antonino Rizzo. These records might include notations about parents and previous marriages.

Steps on FamilySearch:

Go to FamilySearch.
Search for Antonino Rizzo in the "Search Historical Records" section.
Filter results by location (Termini Imerese) and event type (Marriage).
Cross-Check Other Sources
Find A Grave: The Find A Grave entry you mentioned has conflicting information. Always cross-check these details with primary sources like civil records. The birth in Belluno Veronese is likely incorrect as it doesn't align with other information you have.
4. Analyze DNA Matches
Understanding DNA Centimorgans (cM): A 98 cM match could indicate a second to third cousin relationship, meaning you share great-grandparents or great-great-grandparents.
Shared Matches: Use shared matches to triangulate and understand how other matches might fit into the family tree.
5. Verify Maria Lombardo’s Parents
Two Possible Parent Sets: To resolve the conflicting information about Maria Lombardo’s parents, look for her birth, marriage, and death records.

Steps:

Search both sets of possible parents (Giuseppe Lombardo and Domenica Falsone vs. Giuseppe Lombardo and Antonino Gaglione) in the same way as above.
Marriage records can be especially helpful as they often list both sets of parents.

Thank you - I'm actually thinking maybe the 98cm match is all on my X but I did Maria Lombardos parents - dunno why shes a foundling on her birth record, and they aren't on her marriage record either, but they are listed on her death record, its the ones listed on her findagrave that are correct.

And sorry for such a late reply!

[lyn1982]

I have a 98cm dna match and I'm trying to find how we're related. They match as 2nd cousins, at 196cms with a 38cm match of mine. I found their common ancestors. They are
Antonio Rizzo 1855–1937 and Maria Lombardo 1857–1933 Those are my 38cm matches great great grandparents and the 98cm matches grandparents. 98cm match died years ago in their 90s, only recently been able to trace them thanks to the 38cm match.

I'm very confused because I can't find any common ancestors and I think people may have the wrong info in their trees or something.

They got in their trees that Antonino's parents are
Mariano Rizzo
1822–1885

Agostina Marina Navarra
1832–1884

and that he was born Sep 12, 1855. But that seems to be wrong because I found this birth record on ancestry with matching birthday listing parents as Giuseppe Rizzo and Lucia Scarpace:

Antonino Rizzo
Gender Male
Birth Date 12 set 1855 (12 Sep 1855)
Birth Place Termini Imerese, Palermo, Italy
Father Giuseppe Rizzo
Mother Lucia Scarpace
FHL Film Number 1688282
Reference ID it 1 p 52 cn 450

I tried to look here for Antonino's birth: https://antenati.cultura.gov.it/ark:/12 ... 55/Logd82V but it seems most of the records are not indexed as you can see. Does anyone know of a way how to find it from the info on the above record? I'm hoping his birth will have a notation of it as to who he married to in order clear up if people have the right parents for him.

The Mariano Rizzo and Agostina Navarra that people are listing in their trees did have a son Antonino as well but he was born 24 Jan 1854, also in Termini Imerese.

There is also information on find a grave stating that Antonino's birth was
12 Sep 1855
Belluno Veronese, Provincia di Verona, Veneto, Italy https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/755 ... onio_rizzopapers, please that I think is definitely incorrect.

People also have Antonino as having a son Joseph born 31 OCT 1885 and a daughter born 25 JAN 1886 which is impossible if from same mother. My 98cm DNA match is descended from that Joseph.

Can somebody please help me clear up who both Antonino's married so that I can trace the correct line? I'm guessing since it's a 98cm match I should be finding a common surname in the next generation. Wouldn't think it would be back that far but guess it must be. I also have a 139cm match shared with the 98cm match but am unable to trace them.

There is also conflicting information in trees on Maria Lombardo's parents. Some are listing them as
Giuseppe Lombardo (1843-1882
Domenica Falsone (Born 1848 and some as Giuseppe Lombardo (1813-1861) and Antonino Gaglione (1846-1922).

If it's the Falzone one this would be a major breakthrough for me because that leads back to an Antonino Falsone who was born 31 MAR 1828 • Girgenti, Agrigento, Sicily, Italy. That would mean these matches link back to my great grandfather's Agrigento dna matches and that they're on his line. I originally when tracing this match though it was on my great grandmothers line as she was born in Cerda which is near Termini Immerse.

You're dealing with a complex case of conflicting genealogical records and DNA matches, but you're on the right track by questioning existing family trees. Here’s how you can proceed to clarify the relationships:

Confirm Antonino Rizzo’s Parents
Conflicting Parentage:
Some trees list Mariano Rizzo & Agostina Navarra (son Antonino born 24 Jan 1854).
The birth record you found lists Giuseppe Rizzo & Lucia Scarpace (Antonino born 12 Sep 1855).
The Find-a-Grave listing stating Belluno Veronese is almost certainly incorrect, as it contradicts both birth records.
Action:

Look for marriage records of both Antonino Rizzos in Termini Imerese.
Check civil death records—they sometimes list parents and spouses.
Confirm Who Antonino Married
The 98cm match descends from Joseph Rizzo (b. 31 Oct 1885), so you need to confirm whether this Joseph is the son of the 1854 Antonino or the 1855 Antonino.
Look for baptismal or birth records for Joseph Rizzo, which should list his parents.
Check Termini Imerese marriage records for Antonino Rizzo & Maria Lombardo to verify which Antonino married her.
Clarify Maria Lombardo’s Parentage
Conflicting parents:
Giuseppe Lombardo (1843-1882) & Domenica Falsone (b. 1848)
Giuseppe Lombardo (1813-1861) & Antonino Gaglione (1846-1922) (which seems unlikely since Antonino is a male name).
Action:

Search for Maria Lombardo’s birth record (~1857) in Termini Imerese. This should list her parents.
If her mother was Domenica Falsone, you can connect this line to your Agrigento matches and confirm the DNA connection to your great-grandfather.
Step 4: Use DNA Clustering
If you have access to tools like DNA Painter’s Shared cM Project, you can estimate your relationship with the 98cm and 139cm matches.
Use Ancestry’s ThruLines (if available) or GEDmatch clustering to identify shared surnames among your matches.

Thank you - I have her birth record - she was a foundling on it and her marriage but the parents are listed on her death cert. I'm thinking this and the 139cm match are all on my X though so for now I'm putting it aside cause it don't fit anywhere and thats only thing that makes sense to me.

[darkerhorse]

Oh no, not you again.

You're in the realm of likely half-cousins (maybe removed) - 1st, 2nd, or 3rd.
https://dnapainter.com/tools/sharedcmv4

Would it help your search if you assume that the relative in question is only a half-relation, say a half 2nd cousin removed?

There's a genetic genealogy topic here (the least popular one) but I suppose everyone will see your post here.

[lyn1982]

Oh no, not you again.

Hello again Yes, I have more and higher DNA matches now - recently - my cousin - whose a gen closer to my ggf than me, has a 95cm match (not the one mentioned here). But I still can't figure anything out.

You're in the realm of likely half-cousins (maybe removed) - 1st, 2nd, or 3rd.
https://dnapainter.com/tools/sharedcmv4

Would it help your search if you assume that the relative in question is only a half-relation, say a half 2nd cousin removed?

There's a genetic genealogy topic here (the least popular one) but I suppose everyone will see your post here.

For now, since the match is only on 23andme - I'm gonna assume all the DNA is on the X and its inflating it. Because as I mentioned above, my cousin on this line has a 95cm match on ancestry. Well, I can't find any relationship between the ancestors for that match and 98cm match - but both were from TI and settled in Ohio. My thoughts is 23andme match is further away probably all on X, and more distantly related to the 95cm on ancestry that my cousin has.

So I'm focusing on getting 95cm match to my cousin, 21cm match to me on getting their line further back and figuring out if it relates on my great-grandmother's line somehow - though no matches further back to her line are shared with it. And if it relates on my great grandfathers line figuring out how on earth 1 person from TI and another from Porto Empedocle, which are nowhere near each other, ended up having a baby born even further away in Rome. Unforunately - the DNA matches ancestors moved around a lot, and the marriage I need probably happened in France, so I'm still trying to figure out where to look.

[darkerhorse]

Have you tried contacting the users who posted the record sources on the family tree?

Patrick has an email address listed, the others can be reached by Chat.

[lyn1982]

No but this was posted last year, I have both the lines further back now.

[darkerhorse]

No but this was posted last year, I have both the lines further back now.

Contact - not to extend the family tree but to see what they know about family lore, and what documentation or evidence they have for including the records they have in the tree.