Is this the same couple?

[lyn1982]

Is the Maria Salome Pavia mother in this death record: https://antenati.cultura.gov.it/ark:/12 ... 05/LP2q1eB bottom left the same as the Maria Salome Caci in this marriage record here? https://antenati.cultura.gov.it/ark:/12 ... 42/wEAzGJK Both were married to Domenico Mastracchios. If someone could see if age matches for both - or if there is anything else to determine - that would be much help. Reason being Martorana keeps popping up in DNA matches and one married a Caci. I know the Maria Salome Pavia is one who likely raised my ggf as her name is what her biological sons put on their death certs in NY. Is Pavia surname mentioned anywhere in the marriage record?

[darkerhorse]

The only match is "contadina" - peasant. In the second record she is age 24, nubile (never married). No other information in the first record to compare.

[darkerhorse]

In the first record she resides in Alatri. In the second record she was born and resides in Veroli.

[lyn1982]

Thanks for looking. What about the Domenico's? Any way to determine if they are the same, Here is another death record of a child of Pavia: https://antenati.cultura.gov.it/ark:/12 ... 04/w1X2Rzr This one Domenico is still alive for. Does it have his age in both? And is there not any house number/street for the marriage? I know for the deaths there should be.

"In the first record she resides in Alatri. In the second record she was born and resides in Veroli."

Thank you for that - although - I don't think that rules out being same woman, as she could have moved from Veroli to Alatri. Although - that does mean you can't determine by location. ;(

I might have to do up a tree for the Caci one even if can't be determined though - given the Martorana connection - and just assume the 2 Domenico's are cousins - can you make out names of her parents please?

[darkerhorse]

"In the first record she resides in Alatri. In the second record she was born and resides in Veroli."

Thank you for that - although - I don't think that rules out being same woman, as she could have moved from Veroli to Alatri. Although - that does mean you can't determine by location. ;(

Exactly.

[darkerhorse]

Thanks for looking. What about the Domenico's? Any way to determine if they are the same, Here is another death record of a child of Pavia: https://antenati.cultura.gov.it/ark:/12 ... 04/w1X2Rzr This one Domenico is still alive for. Does it have his age in both? And is there not any house number/street for the marriage? I know for the deaths there should be.

I might have to do up a tree for the Caci one even if can't be determined though - given the Martorana connection - and just assume the 2 Domenico's are cousins - can you make out names of her parents please?

The 12-month old girl died at 46 Contrada Becchiena(?) (Vecchiena?). No age for father Domenico, just contadino residing in Alatri.

I see by your user name you are a "Master" so I won't need to translate "contadino".

By the way, Master might be a good translation for Don.

[darkerhorse]

What about the Domenico's? Any way to determine if they are the same,

Please specify what you are asking here?

[lyn1982]

What about the Domenico's? Any way to determine if they are the same,

Please specify what you are asking here?

Just if they are the same man - but I guess without an age on the one in death records there isn't. I can't understand why mothers surname would be different in marriage vs death of children. I don't have any Caci dna match surnames but its supposedly most common in Agrigento - so seeing it in Veroli is either a weird coincidence or some sort of relation.

[lyn1982]

Thanks for looking. What about the Domenico's? Any way to determine if they are the same, Here is another death record of a child of Pavia: https://antenati.cultura.gov.it/ark:/12 ... 04/w1X2Rzr This one Domenico is still alive for. Does it have his age in both? And is there not any house number/street for the marriage? I know for the deaths there should be.

I might have to do up a tree for the Caci one even if can't be determined though - given the Martorana connection - and just assume the 2 Domenico's are cousins - can you make out names of her parents please?

The 12-month old girl died at 46 Contrada Becchiena(?) (Vecchiena?). No age for father Domenico, just contadino residing in Alatri.

I see by your user name you are a "Master" so I won't need to translate "contadino".

By the way, Master might be a good translation for Don.

Yea thats a farmer . I'm still wondering if this Caci is any relation to the one who was Francesco Martoranas first wife. I don't think Caci is a very common surname. I got this from forebears site: "The last name Caci is most frequent in Italy, where it is borne by 1,429 people, or 1 in 42,797. In Italy it is most frequent in: Sicily, where 85 percent reside, Lombardy, where 6 percent reside and Lazio, where 4 percent reside."

[darkerhorse]

Farmer or peasant. Like the woman on the tomato paste can.

[darkerhorse]

Is the Maria Salome Pavia mother in this death record: https://antenati.cultura.gov.it/ark:/12 ... 05/LP2q1eB bottom left the same as the Maria Salome Caci in this marriage record here? https://antenati.cultura.gov.it/ark:/12 ... 42/wEAzGJK Both were married to Domenico Mastracchios. If someone could see if age matches for both - or if there is anything else to determine - that would be much help. Reason being Martorana keeps popping up in DNA matches and one married a Caci. I know the Maria Salome Pavia is one who likely raised my ggf as her name is what her biological sons put on their death certs in NY. Is Pavia surname mentioned anywhere in the marriage record?

The marriage took place in 1882 and the death of 7-year-old Bernardino in 1892, suggesting his birth in 1885, so that's consistent with the bride and groom being the boy's parents. But, of course, it's not definitive proof. It's just means that the dates of the events don't rule it out. By the way, Domenico is age 31 and celibe (never married) on the marriage record, suggesting his birth was c.1851.

[lyn1982]

Thanks for that info. I can't recall if I looked for children in Veroli before so I guess I might try that I know in Alatri most years were missing. Pavia has to relate because I found this record he is going to his brother in law. No luck finding him in Us I would guess though that he is Domenicos brother goin to Maria Pavias brother:

Name Augelamonia Mastracci
Gender Male
Ethnicity/ Nationality Italian (South) (Italian)
Marital Status Married
Age 41
Birth Date abt 1865
Last Known Residence Alatri
Departure Port Naples, Italy
Arrival Date 15 Mar 1906
Arrival Port New York, New York, USA
Residence Place Alatri
Final Destination New York
Money in Possession 15
Person in US Loreto Pavia
Ship Name Italia

[lyn1982]

Is the Maria Salome Pavia mother in this death record: https://antenati.cultura.gov.it/ark:/12 ... 05/LP2q1eB bottom left the same as the Maria Salome Caci in this marriage record here? https://antenati.cultura.gov.it/ark:/12 ... 42/wEAzGJK Both were married to Domenico Mastracchios. If someone could see if age matches for both - or if there is anything else to determine - that would be much help. Reason being Martorana keeps popping up in DNA matches and one married a Caci. I know the Maria Salome Pavia is one who likely raised my ggf as her name is what her biological sons put on their death certs in NY. Is Pavia surname mentioned anywhere in the marriage record?

The marriage took place in 1882 and the death of 7-year-old Bernardino in 1892, suggesting his birth in 1885, so that's consistent with the bride and groom being the boy's parents. But, of course, it's not definitive proof. It's just means that the dates of the events don't rule it out. By the way, Domenico is age 31 and celibe (never married) on the marriage record, suggesting his birth was c.1851.

You said before you thought on that Mastracchio/Caci marriage brides fathers name was
Innocenzo right? Do you think this could be same one and any ideas how I could determine? I can look in church marriages in Agrigento but doubt I'll be lucky enough that they married there.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... 7Q?lang=en
Name Innocenzo Caci
Sex Maschio
Father's Name Gerlando Caci
Father's Sex Male
Mother's Name Maria Assunta Gelo
Mother's Sex Female
Event Type Birth
Event Date 7 novembre 1822
Event Place Girgenti, Agrigento, Sicilia, Italia
Certificate Number 503

[darkerhorse]

You said before you thought on that Mastracchio/Caci marriage brides fathers name was Innocenzo right? Do you think this could be same one and any ideas how I could determine?

Yes, I thought his name was Innocenzio.

For what it's worth, in that 1882 marriage record, Innocenzio Caci is recorded as age 63, implying a birth year of 1819 which is reasonably close to the birth record showing 1822.

The marriage record is rather long. Has anyone given you a complete translation?

[darkerhorse]

If Innocenzio was actually born in 1822 then he would have been age 60 (instead of 63) at the time of the marriage. Normally, you would expect age rounding so that a 63 year old might be reported as age 60 or 65, but not a 60 year old reported as age 63, as might have been the case here. I'm not sure who would have reported his age - likely the groom or bride. Of course, Innocenzio himself might not have known the exact year of his birth.

Having said that, if it were me I would take it as a preliminary match.