No replies from Ottaviano

[blujay]

Your e-mail(s) are probably in a pile as it is the 'holiday' month in Italy. Most places either close down and state offices run on a skeleton staff who only deal with urgent matters and they will then slowly catch up with the backlog when vacations are over.

Most offices are returning to full staffing next week. See if your relative will at least telephone them and ask if they have received your e-mail. If you/he/she can't do that - then send me a Private Message and I will call them next week and ask for you...
elba

Elba,
That is a very generous offer. Thank you very much.

I emailed my relative in Grottaglie and asked for his assistance. He has not responded to my emails as of late. Maybe he is on vacation too? I just wish he had a personal email so I wouldn't have to write the demographic office all the time.
Thank you everyone for your helpful suggestions.

Regards,
blujay

[blujay]

Hello everyone! Good news!
After more emails and under the guidance of elba, I finally received the birth extract of my great-grandmother from Ottaviano in early March (it took them 15 months to process my request!!). She was born 2 Jan 1888. All those years, her birthday was celebrated on the wrong day, 14 Feb!
I profoundly thank elba for all of her generous assistance, patience, and support. If not for you, I would still be hopelessly awaiting a response from Ottaviano. I also want to thank suanj, Italysearcher, and PeterTimber for all of your contributions as well.

Best regards to all,
blujay

[PeterTimber]

While I too urge patience as suggested by SUANJ you should be aware that there was a law passed in italy on August 7, 1990 Number# 241 which established the right of the public to receive a reply from a public office within 30 days of a request This letter (supposedly) rarely goes unanswered.

This letter to the Mayor should only be used if you have sent a follow up letter to the Stato Civile or Anagrafe offices and received no reply, then sent a follow-up letter which also went unanswered for at least a month.

Just to let you know what is the last resort left open to you if your relative can wave his wand and get you the records you seek. =Peter=

[DeFilippis78]

Did you ever try emailing them? Some comunes that have ignored my written request did answer my emails. Give it a shot!

Alicia

[blujay]

Thanks for the comments.
Three formally written requests were sent (via postal mail): Dec 2008, Mar 2009 (registered), and Jun 2009. The last one being sent to the mayor (who obviously had better things to do with his time!). No response. At least 5-6 emails were sent. No response. It was not until elba was able to make some phone calls to Ottaviano at my expense that the dialog began in Sep 2009. The excuses were lame: "This record takes time to find because it is so old", etc. Then why didn't they send me at least one response stating that?!
In Dec 2009, I wrote my final email to Ottaviano. I told them, that after a year, I still had not received a response from their office after multiple postal requests, several emails, and telephone calls. That I had been shown "no courtesy" and so on. (At that point, I had sufficient reason to believe that they never had any intention of sending a reply to my initial request.) As expected, no response and no contact after that. Turn the page or so I thought.
On March 9th, the birth extract finally arrived along with my first letter dated 30 Nov 2008.
So you see, even when you do things by the book, it still does not work out as expected. In such rare cases, it always helps to have a friend in your corner who is willing and able to fight on your behalf. Thank you elba!!

Regards to all,
blujay

[johnnyonthespot]

... Then why didn't they send me at least one response stating that?!

You are absolutely correct!

I have had the same issues with my paternal grandparent's comune and, as I have said elsewhere in other threads, the difference between that comune and the one of my maternal grandparents is as different as the dead of night at in Antarctica and high noon at the Equator.

Here I am, nearly two years after having my citizenship registered in this very comune, and I still can't get a response from them!

[DeFilippis78]

Carmine, you are registered in that comune and they still dont answer? Thats amazing. I guess it doesnt matter one way or the other that your a citizen? Your still an American to them. I would think being registered there would give you an advantage.

Alicia

[johnnyonthespot]

Carmine, you are registered in that comune and they still dont answer? Thats amazing. I guess it doesnt matter one way or the other that your a citizen? Your still an American to them. I would think being registered there would give you an advantage.

Alicia

On January 16, 2010, I sent an email (in Italian) requesting certain documents. I included a photocopy of the inside of my Italian passport as well as photocopies of a birth and marriage certificate already in my possession, hoping to simplify the research effort.

On January 28, I followed up with another email, asking "Per cortesia mi faccia sapere se ha ricevuto la mia richiesta e quanto tempo ci vuole per avere i documenti." ("Please tell me if you have received my request and how long it may take to provide the documents.")

It is now April 6th and I have yet to hear anything from them. This has always been the pattern. I was only able to obtain the birth and marriage certificate necessary for my jure sanguinis application thanks to the kindness of an American citizen who was living about 1/2 hour's drive away and offered to visit the comune on my behalf. That was after waiting over nine months for a response to several mailed requests.

[DeFilippis78]

So in a nutshell, citizen or not a citizen, that comune just stinks at taking requests I guess, lol! I have had trouble with some and others be very efficient. Its a roll of the dice with each one who is going to be compliant.

Alicia

[blujay]

So...Its a roll of the dice with each one who is going to be compliant.

Alicia

Yes. But the comunes that do not respond are in the minority. I have emailed several comunes and have received responses with researched information in as little 2 days. Through my experience, the average waiting time for an email to an Italian comune is about 4-5 days.

-blujay

[DeFilippis78]

In my experience there have been people who answer more than not. But I really do feel bad for the people who are having so much trouble. But I guess its the same in America. I can honestly say whenever I call vital records in NJ they are some the meanest sounding people I talked too. Just miserable, lol!

Alicia

[blujay]

Johnnyonthespot,
Sorry to hear that. Believe me, I know what that feels like. But, you do have some options.
1) If you know the address of the ufficio dello stato civile in that comune, you could send them a formal letter stating your request (send it registered mail- somone will have to sign for it). Mention the fact that you have emailed them a few times and have not received a response. This may not get the quickest result, but they will have some paperwork and it will count for something. Emails can often be ignored and/or deleted.
2) You could contact elba. At cost, she made several phone calls on my behalf to Ottaviano and that got the ball rolling because they had three letters of mine in their possession and had to answer for not responding.
3) Every province has an Archivio di Stato. If you know the province of your comune, you could bypass your comune and write to its Archivio di Stato. This is usually done for older records only. But the cut-off date can vary from province to province. Some Archivio di Stato's have records that end in the early 1900's but most end around 1880 or so. Any record older than 1880 should be at its respective Archivio di Stato.

Three months is really not that long. I have waited as long as 5 months with Solofra. But they always get back to me. It is most annoying when their is no reply. You will almost never receive a notification stating: "Gentile Sig./Sig.ra ..... We have received your letter via email and are processing your request. We will notify you when our research is near completion." That would be too easy.

Good luck!
-blujay

[blujay]

In my experience there have been people who answer more than not. But I really do feel bad for the people who are having so much trouble. But I guess its the same in America. I can honestly say whenever I call vital records in NJ they are some the meanest sounding people I talked too. Just miserable, lol!

Alicia

Yes, I agree. I'm in NY and it's actually more difficult to get a record here than in Italy. These people are miserable because they hate their jobs and show up for work with a scowl on their faces. I'm sorry you had to deal with that.

-blujay

[johnnyonthespot]

blujay, thanks for your thoughts.

The truth is, I have already obtained everything I absolutely needed from my paternal ancestral comune (with the help of a gracious lady as described above) and my citizenship jure sanguinis application was approved long ago. However, as I continue researching my family roots, there are additional documents I would love to have and it is these that are causing the frustration now.

All of my early attempts were by postal mail - some with return recipt so I know they were received. With great ambivalance, I even wrote the mayor ("sindaco") once asking him to intervene on my behalf. He didn't reply either... http://www.circolocalabrese.org/resourc ... action.asp

After a two year lull and even sending a 2009 Christmas card to the mayor "and the people of xxxxxxx", (not some cheapo card, either. A very appropriate, reverent, Italian card) I figured I would give it one more shot, this time requesting a different document via the email address which is now on the comune's website. Again, nothing, and my attempt to get a simple, "we recieved your request and..." also failed.

The fact is, I have been trying calmly and with great respect, to get any kind of response from these people since my visit to the comune in March, 2007. In three years, I have never had any response of any kind from any office of this comune. And, no, it is not huge - about 7,000 people with a large and well-staffed (it seemed to me) Ufficio del Municipio.

PS: Unfortunately, the FHL has very few microfilms covering a relatively short time span of this comune's history. Hence, that is not a viable research option.

[DeFilippis78]

You know Carmine, I talked to the lawyer that visits this board about Italian land awhile ago. He was sharing with me stories about how he helps with dual citizenship. In particular he was telling me a funny story about how one comune wasnt responding and getting anyone their documents because the older records were in the basement with big rats. The staff was too terrified to go down in the basement so they just ignored requests. You never know if thats the situation, lol!

Alicia