Sconfienza, Gotti, Vernetti-Manson - Mombercelli and Locana

[Longshot]

I am looking for information on the Sconfienza and realted family of Mombercelli, Torino, Italy. The earliest projenitor of this family in my data was Giacomo Sconfienza who was born about 1804 in Mombercelli, and died in Locana. He married Maria Lucia Gotti (maybe Gotta) and I have one son only: Giovanni Sconfienza who was born about 1837 in Locana. He married Maria Gioanna Vernetti-Mansin. Of their children Biagio Sconfienza, born 1864, came to America. He sent for a wife back in Italy an married her in America. She was Teresa Tira. I do not know where she was from in Italy.

Thank You

[ptimber]

Not wishing to overlook the obvious, I assum you have already gone thru www.familysearch.org for the surnames and since you do not say what you have done to locate anyinformation prior to 1804, I hesitate to re-invent the wheel for you. Please let me know what steops you have taken in this regard so we can not waste our mutual time. Peter

[Longshot]

To the extent that ancestral files and LDS member contributed information has any value, it has been consulted. LDS transcriptions, as represented by familysearch.org, do not exist for Mombercelli, but for Locana they have Registri ecclesiastici, 1612-1899 Chiesa cattolica. Parrocchia di Locana (Torino), which I have not yet consulted, but shall when time permits. I do not descend from this family, but I have access to descendants who have little more, essentially, than what is contained in my query. I have emailed two people with the surname Sconfienza in Mombercelli, but have yet to receive a reply. However, I am not in need of genealogy lessons, nor do I ask that you reinvent the wheel for me. If you have information specific to these families, or valuable guidance with respect to Italian genealogy, which is a subject that is new to me, it will be most welcome. Otherwise, I regret, you may have already wasted our mutual time with a response to my query that I can only characterize as pedantic.

[ptimber]

I did not mean to be pedantic but perhaps positive paranoia might be the better diagnosis since I have found over the eyars that people, often accomplished researchers go fishing and feign little or omit information that would help a positive response. Often when I have made such an effort, I get a response whichin effect says "Oh Yes I did that and I knew that but I was hoping you might come uop with something really new and I did not say anything to encourage the response I am looking for". You did not explain yourself in the beginning and had you said inthe beginning what yiou say now after i responded to you we could have been farther along or on our way to balmier settings. Re-inventing the wheel meant doing your work already accomplished by you ance again and not meant to be pejorative but rather wary of you. You say you are not in need of genealogy lessons (I gave none) and yet you say it is a subject new to you which indicates to me that you are looking for some exquisite source of information that I did not and obviously cannot provide. But I must conclude by saying that I did not waste my time and sincerely wished to assist you if I were able. Judging from your response, however, I can say you are validating my inherent mistrust of strangers. Peter

[Longshot]

Peter,

There is nothing in my response that should justify or validate your inherent mistrust of strangers. Further I did not say I am new to genalogy, but new to Italian genealogy. This is a project for an aunt who will be 85 in September. I am not blood related to my aunt, but love her dearly and would like to give her some of her Italian family for her birthday. I have a great deal of sympathy for your attitude with respect to what I would characterize as some efficiency in one's query so that respondents may reply efficiently. On the other hand, incorporating a history of one's efforts to date with respect to the query is often burdensome to the reader, and may diminish responses - or limit them in the sense that one implies "OK here's what I have done, what can you do for me beyond this?" Sometimes the least expected comment from the rankest geneological amateur may blow a brick wall to pieces, why make boundaries?

On the other hand, there is a lot of wasted time in genealogy by nature of the pursuit. How many indexes have I read, moving my finger slowly down the list is beyond my count. That is more reason one should make efforts to reduce it. Your reply is well taken and I would regret it if our exchange curtailed "balmier settings."

[mfjp]

Hi Doug, did Teresa ever settle in Montana?

[VaDeb]

Hi Doug,

Have you searched the Sconfienza surname of the ancestry.com message boards? There is a poster with information about Biagio Sconfieza from Locana, Italy. Possibly it relates to the family you are looking for.

Debbie

[Longshot]

Yes,

Maria Teresa Irene Tira and her husband Biagio Sconfienza lived first in Texas. Thereafter they moved to Red Lodge, Montana where they both lived out their lives. In my original message I said I did not have her origins, but I was mistaken. I see I have an overlooked source I have noted as "Research of Charlotte Mattila Koski recieved of Elizabeth Orr Burney [a descendant] 5/14/01." This source states that she was from Castellemonte, Torinese, and her parents were Tommasso Tira and Cattarina Maddio. Looking further I see that Charlotte Mattila Koski is the grand daughter of Teresa and Biagio. She also provided the children of Tommasso and Cattarina. The Elizabeth Orr Burney referred to above is my first cousin; the daughter of the aunt I referred to in my last message to Peter.

From your message it appears you know of Teresa.

[Longshot]

Debbie,

I am a little confused with respect to the order of responses I am replying to. It appears that participants are notified of actions regarding the topic rather than being notified of responses to their own comments. If so, then I presume I am replying in such a way that you will be aware of it.

In answer to your question, I have seen the ancestry.com messages regarding this family, but it was some time ago and I am not aware of new messages (say within a year or so). Your suggestion is well taken and I should check to see if there is anything recent I have overlooked.

[mfjp]

Hi Doug, thought the year of immigration might help?

This census did not include her husband and that is why I wanted to check with you first about the location...

If you don't have a copy of this, I can send you one.

Name: Tressa Sconfienza
Age: 53 years 
Estimated birth year: 1866
Birthplace:  Italy
Race:  White
Home in 1920: Red Lodge, Carbon, Montana

Year of immigration: 1894

Roll: T625_967
Page:  10B
ED: 17
Image:   0895

All the best,
mfjp

[Longshot]

Thanks for the info on emmigation. Looks like she came about 3 years after Biagio which lends credence to the story that he sent for her.

I have access to the census info on Ancestry.com and assume that I can find the record there - no need to send. As for Eric Hoffer I always found this one curious:

"The short-lived self, teetering on the edge of extinction, is the only thing that can ever really matter."

His writings seem greatly influenced by observing the human being in blind mass movements. He lived to see, to name a few cultural events, Hitler's capture of the German psyche, Japanese fanatical "selflessness," and the self-righteousness of counter culture of the 60's and early 70's.

Thanks again and sorry for the "off topic."

[sirius0772]

My name is Maria SCONFIENZA. My parents are Mary MUSOLF and Paul SCONFIENZA (b. 1945 Montana). His parents were Della FUSON and Morris SCONFIENZA (b. 1904, Wyoming) . Morris' parents were Rita PRACCA and Francesco SCONFIENZA (b. 1864, Locana Canavese, Italy). Frank's parents were Maria Gioanna VERNETTI-MANSIN and Giovanni SCONFIENZA (b. abt 1838, Mombercelli, Torino, Piedmont, ITL) . Giovanni's parents were Maria Lucia GOTTA and Giacomo SCONFIENZA ( b. abt 1804, Piedmont, ITL).

Biagio, born 1864, is Frank's twin brother. Teresa was born in Castellemonte, ITL in 1870.

I also have info from Ellis Island about their many trips to the US.

[Longshot]

Hi Maria,

Thank you for replying - and good to hear from you. I did not have anything on Morris Sconfienza's wife and children - or grandchildren. Further I had Morris' birthdate as "abt 1894" based on his age given in the 1930 census of Red Lodge. When I get time (soon), I will read all of your note and get back with more detail. The 85 year old lady Barbara "Jane" Sconfienza Orr (my aunt), referred to previous posts is your second cousin. Your common ancestor is Giovanni and Maria Gioanna Vernetti-Mansin Sconfienza. Do you have anything before Giovanni (b 1804) or any of the female lines?

Thanks
Doug

[sirius0772]

My grandfather (Morris SCONFIENZA) was born July 29, 1904 in Red Lodge, Montana and died May 30, 1963 in Powell, Wyoming. Morris was married twice. He had a daughter with his first wife and 2 sons and 1 daughter with my grandma.

I do have some info on the female lines. Hopefully we can do an exchange of information. I have your aunt's parents in my files, but just their names.

[Longshot]

Maria,

Perhaps it would be less cumbersome if we communicated by email. I hesitate to state either my email address, or ask for yours on a forum. I followed a hunch and I think I found your email address. I will contact you.

Doug