ok, none of those names are fitting. the fracesca lombardo graffanino i have died 21 may 1934 and was 77 years old so she would have been born 1856-57. And Antonio Graffagnino that she was married to died 24 dec 1921. He was the one mfjp found coming through new york to new orleans in 1890 and he was born in 1857, which is what we had estimated. so the frances graffagnino on the 1930 census is probably correct since the birth year is closer, but would a step-son take in a step-mother to take care of? because that is the oldest son listed there married to rosa (in texas) and he was one of the children that came over to new orleans with cecilia clemente.
ah the joys of research i guess.
trisha
immigration to new orleans....question
Re: immigration to new orleans....question
oh, and i signed on for a 2 week ancestry.com trial just to be able to find some of this mess faster. 
trisha
trisha
Re: immigration to new orleans....question
mfjp and essgee,
Ok, I've been doing lots of digging and here's what i've found. So maybe you can help me. I finally found Tony Graffagnino (spelled wrong of course) on the 1910 census in LA married to a Frances L. Their ages and estimated years of birth (1856 and 1857) matches up to what we have also. It says they've been married 32 years and that she had 9 children and 6 living. Living with them was a son Peter who was 25, a son Tony who was 16, and a daughter Frances (my line) who was 11. Now this all makes sense. But, when you put this together with the information that I found for the other siblings coming over on the ship with Cecilia, it doesn't quite make sense. Maybe they were traveling with an aunt and coming over to meet their dad?
And I guess I was a little confused, did you see her on the ship coming over through New York with Antonio or it wasn't? Supposedly through family stories the kids came over with their parents. And Antonino was married to Cecilia Celemente at some point, but still not sure why she'd come over with the kids if she was married to him first. It's all just so confusing!
Trisha
Ok, I've been doing lots of digging and here's what i've found. So maybe you can help me. I finally found Tony Graffagnino (spelled wrong of course) on the 1910 census in LA married to a Frances L. Their ages and estimated years of birth (1856 and 1857) matches up to what we have also. It says they've been married 32 years and that she had 9 children and 6 living. Living with them was a son Peter who was 25, a son Tony who was 16, and a daughter Frances (my line) who was 11. Now this all makes sense. But, when you put this together with the information that I found for the other siblings coming over on the ship with Cecilia, it doesn't quite make sense. Maybe they were traveling with an aunt and coming over to meet their dad?
And I guess I was a little confused, did you see her on the ship coming over through New York with Antonio or it wasn't? Supposedly through family stories the kids came over with their parents. And Antonino was married to Cecilia Celemente at some point, but still not sure why she'd come over with the kids if she was married to him first. It's all just so confusing!
Trisha
Re: immigration to new orleans....question
Ok....
We have to step back here and see what we know.
It appears the relatives listed in 1910 census and 1930 census might be correct. If so, Francis is the mother of these children as the number of years married confirms it.
There are more then one family of Graffagnino in the area and they carry some of the same first names...this adds to the confusion. That is why you must identify one person as "fact" and go back carefully from there.
You stated that the child Francis in the 1910 census was your line. Was this Francis married by 1920? If so, who did she marry and where did she live. We need to connect the 1910 census to the 1930 census. If Antonio was alive until 1921, he must be somewhere. Since they were in police district 5 in the 1910 census of St. Mary, I went through every page of the 1920 census of that area and found no Graffagnino family there. So, they must have relocated and I need a clue to the relocation.
Maybe Wildspirt can help here...she is good a tracking down things in the records. I have tried searching the 1920 census by every which way imaginable.....nothing.
Now, Stephen is in Texas in 1920 and Camelo is in NO. Both have been naturalized...one list 1905, the other 1904. This is paperwork you could find. They would still be in their teens and chances are they were naturalized on their father's papers. So somewhere in LA is a good chance of the existence of a naturalization paper and most likely a declaration of intent for Anthony. This would probably list all the children's names.
List for me all the names of the children: Maybe one will lead to where they are in 1900.
Also, list the Americanization of the name..Gioacchino probably went by a more common English name like Charles......
What about Nicolina...do you know what happened to her? Who she may have married?
We need something to bridge the gaps........
We have to step back here and see what we know.
It appears the relatives listed in 1910 census and 1930 census might be correct. If so, Francis is the mother of these children as the number of years married confirms it.
There are more then one family of Graffagnino in the area and they carry some of the same first names...this adds to the confusion. That is why you must identify one person as "fact" and go back carefully from there.
You stated that the child Francis in the 1910 census was your line. Was this Francis married by 1920? If so, who did she marry and where did she live. We need to connect the 1910 census to the 1930 census. If Antonio was alive until 1921, he must be somewhere. Since they were in police district 5 in the 1910 census of St. Mary, I went through every page of the 1920 census of that area and found no Graffagnino family there. So, they must have relocated and I need a clue to the relocation.
Maybe Wildspirt can help here...she is good a tracking down things in the records. I have tried searching the 1920 census by every which way imaginable.....nothing.
Now, Stephen is in Texas in 1920 and Camelo is in NO. Both have been naturalized...one list 1905, the other 1904. This is paperwork you could find. They would still be in their teens and chances are they were naturalized on their father's papers. So somewhere in LA is a good chance of the existence of a naturalization paper and most likely a declaration of intent for Anthony. This would probably list all the children's names.
List for me all the names of the children: Maybe one will lead to where they are in 1900.
Also, list the Americanization of the name..Gioacchino probably went by a more common English name like Charles......
What about Nicolina...do you know what happened to her? Who she may have married?
We need something to bridge the gaps........
Re: immigration to new orleans....question
Essgee,
Ok, my frances graffagnino was married and i already found her on the 1920 census in Pt. Arthur Texas. the family kind of moved across louisiana over to texas. And I'm pretty positive that her mother frances is on the 1930 census in Pt. Arthur Texas living with her son G Graffagnino.
The information i have on him is that he married Rosa Roccaforte and kids:
Rosa, Stefano, Francesco, Antonino, Dorotea, Saastiano (percy), Francesca, Gioacchino, Paolo, Salvatore, Carmelo, Caterina, Nicolina. So they do match up. But I still haven't been able to find anything for 1920 but I'm getting ready to search through the other kids and giocchino, frances oldest son here. I'll be going down to the big library in houston saturday looking for stuff and i hear they have a lot of stuff from NO too, including ship manifests. So even if i can get pointed in the right direction if i can't find it online would be great.
Thank you again,
Trisha
Ok, my frances graffagnino was married and i already found her on the 1920 census in Pt. Arthur Texas. the family kind of moved across louisiana over to texas. And I'm pretty positive that her mother frances is on the 1930 census in Pt. Arthur Texas living with her son G Graffagnino.
The information i have on him is that he married Rosa Roccaforte and kids:
Rosa, Stefano, Francesco, Antonino, Dorotea, Saastiano (percy), Francesca, Gioacchino, Paolo, Salvatore, Carmelo, Caterina, Nicolina. So they do match up. But I still haven't been able to find anything for 1920 but I'm getting ready to search through the other kids and giocchino, frances oldest son here. I'll be going down to the big library in houston saturday looking for stuff and i hear they have a lot of stuff from NO too, including ship manifests. So even if i can get pointed in the right direction if i can't find it online would be great.
Thank you again,
Trisha
Re: immigration to new orleans....question
I've been thru the 1910, 1920, and the 1930 census.............
not only are names repetitive, but mistakes in ages as well.
For instance, G. Graffagnino is listed as 50 yrs. old in 1920......
but in 1930, he is listed at 47 yrs. old........
So with that in mind, I have the following........
GRAFFAGNINO FRANCIS 47 F W ITAL LA ORLEANS 10-WD; 6-PCT; NEW ORLEANS 1920
903 Laurel Street
Francis Graffagnino, widowed, birthplace, Italy, Immigration, 1888, and she is naturalized. Children living with her......
Anthony, 29, single, born in La
Leonora, 23, single, born in La
Peter, 21, single, born in La
Now living next door at 901 Laurel Street:
Frank Graffagnino, 32, birthplace, Italy, immigration, 1890, naturalized 1918?
Sarah, wife, 52?, birthplace, Italy, immigration, 1892/93, naturalized
daughter, Marie or Carie, 2?, born in La.
The writing on this one was small and hard to read.......
But I'm betting Francis was 67, not 47.........
wldspirit
not only are names repetitive, but mistakes in ages as well.
For instance, G. Graffagnino is listed as 50 yrs. old in 1920......
but in 1930, he is listed at 47 yrs. old........
So with that in mind, I have the following........
GRAFFAGNINO FRANCIS 47 F W ITAL LA ORLEANS 10-WD; 6-PCT; NEW ORLEANS 1920
903 Laurel Street
Francis Graffagnino, widowed, birthplace, Italy, Immigration, 1888, and she is naturalized. Children living with her......
Anthony, 29, single, born in La
Leonora, 23, single, born in La
Peter, 21, single, born in La
Now living next door at 901 Laurel Street:
Frank Graffagnino, 32, birthplace, Italy, immigration, 1890, naturalized 1918?
Sarah, wife, 52?, birthplace, Italy, immigration, 1892/93, naturalized
daughter, Marie or Carie, 2?, born in La.
The writing on this one was small and hard to read.......
But I'm betting Francis was 67, not 47.........
wldspirit
Re: immigration to new orleans....question
Wildspirit......
After Trish's last note, I found Francis in Texas in 1930...in Jeffereson Co., with her daughter Francis. Cannot read the name of the husband..indexed as "Peadda, Gio." It is hard to read and I am not sure that is the name in reality. I spent a lot of time last night trying to find hide or hair of this family in either Texas or LA.
Maybe Trish will tell us the correct surname of this daughter Francis and the name of the man she married. The oldest son, Martin was born in LA. But the second son who is 10/11 was born in Texas so they could be in Texas in 1920. Other members of the family are. There is a Joe listed in 1920, in Texas whose age should be the age of Giocchino. Who the "G" of age 50 is, I am not sure.
Anyway, to begin with I got some of the census data wrong because I did not have a list of the names of children, nor did I find out Francis was in Texas until Trish pointed it out in her last post--though I had found Stephen there in 1920.
Well, maybe there is somewhere out there. Just do not understand with such a unique name, why we cannot find something!
After Trish's last note, I found Francis in Texas in 1930...in Jeffereson Co., with her daughter Francis. Cannot read the name of the husband..indexed as "Peadda, Gio." It is hard to read and I am not sure that is the name in reality. I spent a lot of time last night trying to find hide or hair of this family in either Texas or LA.
Maybe Trish will tell us the correct surname of this daughter Francis and the name of the man she married. The oldest son, Martin was born in LA. But the second son who is 10/11 was born in Texas so they could be in Texas in 1920. Other members of the family are. There is a Joe listed in 1920, in Texas whose age should be the age of Giocchino. Who the "G" of age 50 is, I am not sure.
Anyway, to begin with I got some of the census data wrong because I did not have a list of the names of children, nor did I find out Francis was in Texas until Trish pointed it out in her last post--though I had found Stephen there in 1920.
Well, maybe there is somewhere out there. Just do not understand with such a unique name, why we cannot find something!
Re: immigration to new orleans....question
Ok, sorry about the confusion. The daughter Frances married Giuseppe "Joseph" Piazza and they are on the 1920 census in Pt. Arthur, Jefferson, Texas, Precinct 2 with their two sons.
Now, I've found a Tony Graffagnino on the 1920 census in in the same area as above, and I'm interested to see your interpretation on it. His age is 4 years off, but it says that his mom is living with him and her name says Boya? or something like that, but her age is the same and she is widowed and i can't tell about the year she immigrated. But even though the name is different, it looks like it may be her. Any thoughts on that?
Trisha
Now, I've found a Tony Graffagnino on the 1920 census in in the same area as above, and I'm interested to see your interpretation on it. His age is 4 years off, but it says that his mom is living with him and her name says Boya? or something like that, but her age is the same and she is widowed and i can't tell about the year she immigrated. But even though the name is different, it looks like it may be her. Any thoughts on that?
Trisha
Re: immigration to new orleans....question
Trish........
Saw that listing for Anthony..... Only problem is that you state Antonio died in 1921... Is there any chance they got divorced? Because there is an Anthony with a women who is like 48 in LA in 1920?
Now, I found a Giocchino (indexed as Grossliuis???) and Stephen (indexed as Stephane) in the Texas WWI registrations. And Stephen listed that he was born in Sala, Caserta, Italy.........now you at least know where they came from!! Anyway, the family was present in Texas by 1917/18 at least so bear this in mind...
Will go after the Piazza link and see what is there...(how they wrote it down originally bears little resemblence to the name Piazza.....goodness.)
Back later......
Saw that listing for Anthony..... Only problem is that you state Antonio died in 1921... Is there any chance they got divorced? Because there is an Anthony with a women who is like 48 in LA in 1920?
Now, I found a Giocchino (indexed as Grossliuis???) and Stephen (indexed as Stephane) in the Texas WWI registrations. And Stephen listed that he was born in Sala, Caserta, Italy.........now you at least know where they came from!! Anyway, the family was present in Texas by 1917/18 at least so bear this in mind...
Will go after the Piazza link and see what is there...(how they wrote it down originally bears little resemblence to the name Piazza.....goodness.)
Back later......
Re: immigration to new orleans....question
LOL.......I stayed up to 2am looking for this info.....quite the challenge!!
Again, with the repeating names it's hard to find that one connection to nail it down pat........I went thru every Graffagnino in the 1910, 1920, and 1930 census for both Texas and Louisiana.......by 1920 we have them in Texas........with many in Louisiana.........
G. Graffagnino was in Texas abt. 1915, his son Pete was born in Texas and is 15 on the 1930 census........
Steve Graffagnino was in Texas abt. the same time as his son Baptiste is 16 in the 1930 census...........and both of these men have daughters named
Francis.....the elder Francis must have been highly honored!!!!!!
We also have multiple Anthony/Tony's!!!!!!
Back to the search..........
wldspirit
Again, with the repeating names it's hard to find that one connection to nail it down pat........I went thru every Graffagnino in the 1910, 1920, and 1930 census for both Texas and Louisiana.......by 1920 we have them in Texas........with many in Louisiana.........
G. Graffagnino was in Texas abt. 1915, his son Pete was born in Texas and is 15 on the 1930 census........
Steve Graffagnino was in Texas abt. the same time as his son Baptiste is 16 in the 1930 census...........and both of these men have daughters named
Francis.....the elder Francis must have been highly honored!!!!!!
We also have multiple Anthony/Tony's!!!!!!
Back to the search..........
wldspirit
Re: immigration to new orleans....question
Trish and Wldspirt...
I contacted another researcher...Cherrie...at another site. This woman is the most amazing when it come to the census. Don't know how she does it, but she is top notch. Gave her the info and she discovered something important...
In 1900, only one page for Patterson, St. Mary, LA. Meaning that the other pages are missing....and with them, probably where this family was located in 1900 since Francis born in Patterson in 1898. Why they are missing, I am not sure...but not available at Ancesty or Heritage Quest as Cherrie pointed out. I also checked Genealogy.com and there are no pages there either...so, for what it is worth right now the pages appear to be missing.
I found an Antonio in th 1890 New Orleans City Directory at 93 Street Ann, working for Leon's Resturant as Manager. Also listed at 229 Canal street...one is home, the other is work address. Listed under Graffigna...... May or may not apply.
Later.........
I contacted another researcher...Cherrie...at another site. This woman is the most amazing when it come to the census. Don't know how she does it, but she is top notch. Gave her the info and she discovered something important...
In 1900, only one page for Patterson, St. Mary, LA. Meaning that the other pages are missing....and with them, probably where this family was located in 1900 since Francis born in Patterson in 1898. Why they are missing, I am not sure...but not available at Ancesty or Heritage Quest as Cherrie pointed out. I also checked Genealogy.com and there are no pages there either...so, for what it is worth right now the pages appear to be missing.
I found an Antonio in th 1890 New Orleans City Directory at 93 Street Ann, working for Leon's Resturant as Manager. Also listed at 229 Canal street...one is home, the other is work address. Listed under Graffigna...... May or may not apply.
Later.........
Re: immigration to new orleans....question
Essgee,
Thanks for the info on the 1900 Patterson census. That explains that part. I'll have to see if anyone down at the library tomorrow knows anything about it. And the Anthony listing I was telling you about in 1920 would be Frances Lombardo Graffagnino's son. It was the Tony that was her husband that died in 1921. And we are sure about him dying and not getting divorced. And I believe they checked the cemetery in Port Arthur where they were buried.
Wldspirit,
I can't believe you were up that late looking! My internet was down all day yesterday so I lost a whole day of searching. But made up for it some last night. Thank you both for all the help you're giving me. I know it gets really confusing with all these same first names where they named everybody after everybody else in the family and then the last names that aren't easy to spell. Ugh! LOL.
Trisha
Thanks for the info on the 1900 Patterson census. That explains that part. I'll have to see if anyone down at the library tomorrow knows anything about it. And the Anthony listing I was telling you about in 1920 would be Frances Lombardo Graffagnino's son. It was the Tony that was her husband that died in 1921. And we are sure about him dying and not getting divorced. And I believe they checked the cemetery in Port Arthur where they were buried.
Wldspirit,
I can't believe you were up that late looking! My internet was down all day yesterday so I lost a whole day of searching. But made up for it some last night.
Thank you both for all the help you're giving me. I know it gets really confusing with all these same first names where they named everybody after everybody else in the family and then the last names that aren't easy to spell. Ugh! LOL.Trisha
Re: immigration to new orleans....question
Hopefully, the "weekend battle for the computer" won't be to bad and Mfjp can help with this one....... 
Wonder what happened to the 1900 census......
Ancestry has numerous records for Louisiana........but I don't have a subscription.........
wldspirit
Wonder what happened to the 1900 census......
Ancestry has numerous records for Louisiana........but I don't have a subscription.........
wldspirit
Re: immigration to new orleans....question
i hadn't thought about the "weekend battle". hopefully it won't be too bad because this is not the FHL but the big genealogy library in Houston. I'm also hoping to track down some ship manifests because i've heard they actually have copies of them there. And after seeing one of the census of Francis, there's a son Peter who was born in Italy also, so now I'm wondering why he didn't come across with the other children.
And I've been taking full advantage of Ancestry for the two week trial that I just got. LOL. Desperate....
trisha
And I've been taking full advantage of Ancestry for the two week trial that I just got. LOL. Desperate....
trisha
Re: immigration to new orleans....question
Check out some of your local genealogy societies........by joining my local society for a mere $18.00 annually.....I get census info online for an additional $12.00 fee.........not bad considering the price of Ancestry... 
.....
but I must admit, I am considering a subscription to Ancestry......
wldspirit
.....but I must admit, I am considering a subscription to Ancestry......
wldspirit
