Storti, in Mantua area
Storti, in Mantua area
I am new to this forum and will be traveling to Italy this summer (2015) to locate family records. I have a contact in Piemonte who has located one branch of my tree back to the 1500s in the small village of Cuzzago. However, he has warned me that the paternal line, Storti, was only there for two generations and was originally from Gazzuolo (Mantua). From what I can see online about Italian last names, Storti is very common in southern Lombardia. I'm feeling a little intimidated about obtaining records in this area (Mantua) where I know no one. Any advice would be appreciated. Also, if anyone has any information on the Storti line (it's not exactly a "Smith"), I would be interested. My 2nd great grandfather, Paride Storti moved from Lombardia to Piemonte in the 1870s. (He was a salesman, probably wine.) If anyone has any historical information about why someone would move away from Mantua at that time, I would like this information, too. I'm enjoying reading everyone else's posts on a variety of topics!
Re: Storti, in Mantua area
What time period are you looking for? If it is 1800s-now you don't need to pay someone, there are ways to do it from home. Letters, websites, etc. I have trace every line of my family to around 1800, some even 1400s, and I have yet to pay anyone.
What information do you have on your trisnonno, Paride Storti. Year of birth? Town?
What information do you have on your trisnonno, Paride Storti. Year of birth? Town?
TIP: When asking for records from Italy, do NOT ask for an "estratto." ALWAYS ask for a "copia integrale." A photocopy of the original Act will contain more information
Re: Storti, in Mantua area
Ciao, Anizio! Paride's parents were Carlo and Margherita Ferrari. He was born in Gazzuolo (Mantua), August 7, 1854, died May 24, 1936.
Re: Storti, in Mantua area
Okay so Mantua is one of the areas of Italy that has no records between 1815-1866. Is that a problem? Sure, but not insurmountable.
1. did he get married in Gazzuolo or another town in Italy? If so you can get a lot of information from that.
2. Death records. ( http://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.i ... olo/Morti/ ) find the deaths of his parents if they stayed in Gazzuolo, available online. If they moved to a new town, find the death records there.
Its entirely possible that, following those death records, you may even be able to find the death records for Paride's grandparents allowing you to then search into the Napoleonic records (1809-1815) which then would get you at least to around 1800 if not closer to 1775.
Once you get to the 1700s there are other options but focus on the one's I've given for now.
If you want help searching just clarify whether Paride's parents stayed in Gazzuolo, or if they moved with Paride what town they moved to.
1. did he get married in Gazzuolo or another town in Italy? If so you can get a lot of information from that.
2. Death records. ( http://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.i ... olo/Morti/ ) find the deaths of his parents if they stayed in Gazzuolo, available online. If they moved to a new town, find the death records there.
Its entirely possible that, following those death records, you may even be able to find the death records for Paride's grandparents allowing you to then search into the Napoleonic records (1809-1815) which then would get you at least to around 1800 if not closer to 1775.
Once you get to the 1700s there are other options but focus on the one's I've given for now.
If you want help searching just clarify whether Paride's parents stayed in Gazzuolo, or if they moved with Paride what town they moved to.
TIP: When asking for records from Italy, do NOT ask for an "estratto." ALWAYS ask for a "copia integrale." A photocopy of the original Act will contain more information
Re: Storti, in Mantua area
Aha!!! Grazie mille!
I used the index and found several Storti's, but only Carlo's name was one I recognized. (Re: He was Paride's father.) Would Margherita be under "Storti" or her maiden name, "Ferrari?" Carlo died in 1881. http://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.i ... ewsIndex=0
I used the index and found several Storti's, but only Carlo's name was one I recognized. (Re: He was Paride's father.) Would Margherita be under "Storti" or her maiden name, "Ferrari?" Carlo died in 1881. http://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.i ... ewsIndex=0
Re: Storti, in Mantua area
Maiden name, Italian women never changed their names. For official documents they almost always (like 99.99%) of the time are by their maiden name.
Now using the index, find the record. it should list Carlo's parents names. Then you can try and find their deaths. No guarantee, but possible.
Now using the index, find the record. it should list Carlo's parents names. Then you can try and find their deaths. No guarantee, but possible.
TIP: When asking for records from Italy, do NOT ask for an "estratto." ALWAYS ask for a "copia integrale." A photocopy of the original Act will contain more information
Re: Storti, in Mantua area
Anizio,
I was so excited to find something in the death index that I didn't answer your other question:
1) I believe Paride married in Premosello Chiovenda (Novarra, Piemonte) since his wife (Teresa Vernizzi) was from there.
There is no death record in the index for Margherita Ferrari or Storti.
The index only lists his full name, year of death and "numero d'ordine nel registro" which is 20. I don't understand what that number means. Are you able to click on the link I posted above?
Indcidentally, Paride had a son (Giovanni) who was a stonecutter in Piemonte. (This is not a surprising trade for the area.) Giovanni moved to New Hampshire, then settled in Vermont where he worked in the quarries. This makes sense to me. Paride was a saleman (probably wine). He moved from a remote area of Lombardia (flat land) to a remote area of Piemonte (alpine). I'm puzzled why he would make this move? What happened in the 1870s in Mantua (historically)? Could there have been political upset? Famine? These are the questions that occupy my mind.
I was so excited to find something in the death index that I didn't answer your other question:
1) I believe Paride married in Premosello Chiovenda (Novarra, Piemonte) since his wife (Teresa Vernizzi) was from there.
There is no death record in the index for Margherita Ferrari or Storti.
The index only lists his full name, year of death and "numero d'ordine nel registro" which is 20. I don't understand what that number means. Are you able to click on the link I posted above?
Indcidentally, Paride had a son (Giovanni) who was a stonecutter in Piemonte. (This is not a surprising trade for the area.) Giovanni moved to New Hampshire, then settled in Vermont where he worked in the quarries. This makes sense to me. Paride was a saleman (probably wine). He moved from a remote area of Lombardia (flat land) to a remote area of Piemonte (alpine). I'm puzzled why he would make this move? What happened in the 1870s in Mantua (historically)? Could there have been political upset? Famine? These are the questions that occupy my mind.
Re: Storti, in Mantua area
Okay, I misread the year. He died in 1884 and I found the death record, but I can't read it! http://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.i ... ewsIndex=0 I can tell he was born somewhere else, but I can't make out the letters. Sigh! Thoughts?
Re: Storti, in Mantua area
Carlo Storti, son of the deceased Giovanni Storti and deceased Tranquilla Zanetti.
Died at age 63 (may not be accurate, but will be close within a few years so you can guess around what time he was born).
Born in Commessaggio, Mantua province.
Husband of Margharita Ferrari (so she was still alive by this year, or else it would say window). Its possible she lived until after the records that are online end, although I'd be surprised if she lived past 1905. Keep looking. Also note there is no index for 85-96, so you need to check that manually too. Time consuming, but the only way.
It doesn't say where Carlo's parents died, so you'll need to check both Commessaggio and Gazzuolo to find out where they died (if they died after 1866, you should find it).
Records for Novara are not yet online, so if you know the approximate year of birth of Paride's children, you can write a letter in Italian (get help writing the letter) and estimate the marriage to be sometime 5-10 year before that, and then get them to send you a copia integrale of the marriage act.
Died at age 63 (may not be accurate, but will be close within a few years so you can guess around what time he was born).
Born in Commessaggio, Mantua province.
Husband of Margharita Ferrari (so she was still alive by this year, or else it would say window). Its possible she lived until after the records that are online end, although I'd be surprised if she lived past 1905. Keep looking. Also note there is no index for 85-96, so you need to check that manually too. Time consuming, but the only way.
It doesn't say where Carlo's parents died, so you'll need to check both Commessaggio and Gazzuolo to find out where they died (if they died after 1866, you should find it).
Records for Novara are not yet online, so if you know the approximate year of birth of Paride's children, you can write a letter in Italian (get help writing the letter) and estimate the marriage to be sometime 5-10 year before that, and then get them to send you a copia integrale of the marriage act.
TIP: When asking for records from Italy, do NOT ask for an "estratto." ALWAYS ask for a "copia integrale." A photocopy of the original Act will contain more information
Re: Storti, in Mantua area
Grazie, Anizio! I could interpret a lot of the Italian but I got stuck on the handwriting. I am still struggling with the 11th line that begins "Storti Carlo" in big letters. It looks like the word "sessante" is written and then possibly his trade/work, but I can't figure that word out. Can you tell me?
I will continue to look for Margherita and Carlo's parents' death records. However, it doesn't appear there are any records available from the early 1820s that would give me Carlo's birth record.
Good news about Novara: about 8 years ago I found a website that told the story of a group of people who won awards in Italy for tracing the lineage of every family in the towns of Premosello Chiovenda and Cuzzago back to the 1500s. The information is not available online, but I have been in contact with a gentleman who has given me all the information (In Italy) for Paride, his wife, and their descendants. Paride's wife's line (Piroli) has been in Cuzzago for many years and I hope to obtain this in full when I go in June.
If anyone needs this information, I can connect you to the people involved in this project.
I will continue to look for Margherita and Carlo's parents' death records. However, it doesn't appear there are any records available from the early 1820s that would give me Carlo's birth record.
Good news about Novara: about 8 years ago I found a website that told the story of a group of people who won awards in Italy for tracing the lineage of every family in the towns of Premosello Chiovenda and Cuzzago back to the 1500s. The information is not available online, but I have been in contact with a gentleman who has given me all the information (In Italy) for Paride, his wife, and their descendants. Paride's wife's line (Piroli) has been in Cuzzago for many years and I hope to obtain this in full when I go in June.
If anyone needs this information, I can connect you to the people involved in this project.
Re: Storti, in Mantua area
sessantatre is his age, 63.
His profession is Sensale, matchmaker. Never seen that before. Very cool.
Some records you cannot get. That is a reality in genealogy. You will never know everything for every ancestor. But you should be able to find enough to know about when he was born, and his parents thus allowing you to trace back.
His profession is Sensale, matchmaker. Never seen that before. Very cool.
Some records you cannot get. That is a reality in genealogy. You will never know everything for every ancestor. But you should be able to find enough to know about when he was born, and his parents thus allowing you to trace back.
TIP: When asking for records from Italy, do NOT ask for an "estratto." ALWAYS ask for a "copia integrale." A photocopy of the original Act will contain more information
