Military record translation please

[AngelaGrace56]

Are the masters who helped other people translate their military records no longer on the website? Is the handwriting too difficult to read? Some feedback would be greatly appreciated please as I am very disappointed as the wording for this section says there is always someone who can help .......


Susan

Susan, there is always someone here who can help, but some matters take time, and especially the translation of military records. The volunteers on this forum are amazing people. They are good people, incredibly intelligent and skilled, who give freely of their time and often don't even get a thank you. They spend hours pouring over difficult records that need to be translated, and hours problem solving incorrect information that have been extracted from Italian Records and Passenger Lists that have been entered on Ancestry.com and other sites that people have to pay a lot of money to join. Like I said, often they don't even get a thank you for the free help they give, they just get more demand for help. Over the years that I have been a member of IG, I have been overwhelmed by the generosity of the volunteers on this forum, and unfortunately I have also been appalled by the lack of respect and gratitude of some people who have been helped.

Anyway, I've done my best to translate the military record here for you:

Luigi Minchella
Left Side: Personal Data and Marks (Dati E Contrassegni Personali)
Son of: Antonio
and of: Maria Teresa Asilli?
Born: 4 March 1896
at: Villa Latina
District of: Sora
Stature: 1.63 m.
Chest 0.87 1/2
Hair Colour: Black and straight 
Face: Oval
Nose: big?
Chin: small
Eyes: brown
Colour: Rosy
Teeth: Healthy
Particular Signs: None mentioned
Profession: Contadino (Peasant)
Can he read and write: A little
Enlisted: Villa Latina

Enlistment, Service, Promotions and other Military Changes (Arruolamento, Servizi, Promozioni ed altre variazioni matricolari):

Conscript 1st Category, class 1896, District of Frosinone
6 October 1915: Left with unlimited leave.
24 November 1915: Called to the army and went? (giunto?).
6 December 1915: Assigned in the 14º Infantry Regiment
10 March 1916: Assigned in the 222º? Infantry Regiment
20? March 1916: Went in territory declared in state of war
12 April 1917: Assigned in the Dep. 93º Infantry Regiment.
20 June 1818: Assigned to 163º Infantry Regiment.
13 September 1919: Assigned to 202º Infantry Regiment.
15 June??? 1919: Assigned in the 66º Infantry of Marcia (Fanteria di Marcia – you can google this)
1 January 1919: Can't read what is crossed out. Then it says “Assigned in the ?????
Will come back to it later, with fresh eyes, time permitting. These records are not easy reads and take time.
13 November 1919: Assigned in the Corps (Corpo? D'armata 12??????)
15 December 1919: Assigned in the Infantry ? And sent … unlimited leave in mind of Circular 613 G.M . 1919

During the time of his service in the army his conduct was good and he served with fidelity and honour.

It looks like it says that he has received an award – Premio di Smobilitazione? I'm not sure whether this might have been in monetary terms? Someone else might know better what this was. I'm just a civilian so don't understand these matters. Not sure I've seen this before?

Ha percepito il ? Vestiario???? I think this means that he got his clothing back???

Verified on 27 January 1921

Hopefully some one will be able to tidy this in places for you. I'm a little bit confused by the date order. It's out of sinc. This happened with my grandfather's record as well but I remember that the events that took place were numbered and so it made it easier to understand.

I'm sorry that you have had to wait so long for the translation. If you remember, it took you a while to post a copy that we could read. I was on my way out and I read this post and noticed you were having difficulty and made a suggestion about cropping the photo, which you have done. I'm glad this worked for you.

Angela

[jazzycat12]

Angela thank you so much for taking the time and trouble to translate this so well. Sorry to be impatient, but Luigi's only remaining relative who wanted this translation is 92 and in poor health. I thought that if a post doesn't receive a reply within 3 days then it is unlikely to be answered. Sorry for the time reposting a larger image but was having trouble using Imageshack. I am always grateful for any help with anything and would never have not thanked anyone for their help. I would have been willing to pay for it if this had been an option.

Luigi and his brother Francesco (my grandfather) came to England in the early 1920s but both went back to fight in the first World War. Tried to get Francesco's military record but they just said they didn't have it. I don't know whether they discarded it when he died in 1928. I don't know what happened to Luigi after 1928, there is no death record for him in England and I can't find any way of checking death records in Italy even with an Ancestry world wide subscription. Perhaps they are only available to Italian residents. He would have died by about 1975-80.

Once again, many thanks for your help.


Susan

[AngelaGrace56]

You are very welcome, Susan. It's probably not a perfect translation. Military records can be quite a challenge because they don't always make sense to us civilians – they use military terms that we don't know - and because of that then it's hard to decipher the script. I've already noticed a couple of things I might have wrong but hopefully Pippo or mmogno, who are much better at reading “military records” than I am, might look at it as well, and correct where I have misinterpreted.

I think that where it says Dep. 93 that Dep. may be short for Deposito – Storage? I also researched “Corpo D'armata but it seems like the timing is wrong for that? Not sure.

Re your original post here, I'm thinking that what probably happened was that it wasn't visible to us for a day or two? (I know that I didn't see it, I would've noticed it because I'm always interested in military records.) Because you are a “newbie,” your first post would need to be screened/okayed by one of the Administrators first. I know that if one of the volunteers had seen your original post they would have helped you with suggestions to make your image smaller. Anyway, good thing is we got there in the end. It will be lovely for you to be able to share it with Luigi's remaining relative. 92 – wow, what a great age.

Angela

[AngelaGrace56]

Luigi and his brother Francesco (my grandfather) came to England in the early 1920s but both went back to fight in the first World War. Tried to get Francesco's military record but they just said they didn't have it. I don't know whether they discarded it when he died in 1928. I don't know what happened to Luigi after 1928, there is no death record for him in England and I can't find any way of checking death records in Italy even with an Ancestry world wide subscription. Perhaps they are only available to Italian residents. He would have died by about 1975-80.

Once again, many thanks for your help.
Susan

Just a thought: Have you ever tried writing to Italy for Luigi's birth record? You have all the information about his birth details here on the military record. It would be an easy look up for them. If he did die in Italy then it hopefully would have his death date annotated on it. You could then possibly ask for his death record as well which would hopefully include details of his wife, if he married, that is.

(Re: Birth Certificate: You would need to ask for “copia integrale dell'atto di nascita”)

Angela

[jazzycat12]

I didn't know that Italian birth records could include death details as well, that's interesting to know.

My father, now deceased, told me that Luigi was believed to have been a Prisoner of War in the second World War on the Isle of Man. He would have been over 40 by then and too old to join the Italian army again so would have been classed as an enemy alien as he was not naturalised. I researched this information but none of the Luigi Minchellas in the records seemed to match. Dad's parents both died before he was 12 year old so he didn't know much about the family.

Someone mentioned the Stato di Famiglia being a record of all the people in a family and updated yearly, but I don't know if that applied to family members who emigrated.

I need to order some of these documents and there's lots of templates online to use to request them. Will let you know if I am successful.

Thanks for your suggestion.


Susan

[AngelaGrace56]

Interesting that he was interned. This could be him: http://search.findmypast.co.uk/results/ ... orld%20war'

It might be worth following up.

Angela

[jazzycat12]

I didn't find this when I was searching! Thank you so much, it certainly looks like it is him. They call him British, which suggests he was naturalised so wonder why he was interned? Will look into this further.



Susan

[jazzycat12]

He might have been interned because he had Facist interests, which I think Dad mentioned.

[AngelaGrace56]

I didn't find this when I was searching! Thank you so much, it certainly looks like it is him. They call him British, which suggests he was naturalised so wonder why he was interned? Will look into this further.
Susan

Does it? I'm just reading Italian internees? I hope it works for you.

He might have been interned because he had Facist interests, which I think Dad mentioned.

Yes, I was wondering about that. I thought that might be the case.

Angela

[jazzycat12]

On the second record it states Nationality: British. On the actual card it states his birth date as 21.3.1896 which is slightly wrong as he was born on 4th March. It also states he was a class A internee which means he was considered "high risk" of being a dangerous alien! It also says Special Case whatever that may mean.

It's all coming back to me what Dad said - he says Luigi and some other Italian friends were called upon by the Police when they were attending a Facist meeting but they covered up what they were doing by saying it was just a friends get together, but someone must have grassed on then!


Susan


Susan

[AngelaGrace56]

Oh, I see. All I'm seeing is what I've posted here, which isn't a lot. I'm not signed up to that site nor Facebook. Okay – so if he was attending a "secret" fascist meeting, I can understand why he maybe considered a risk. You might be able to get a copy of his Alien files. They would be really interesting. They'd probably be held in the British Archives.

Angela

[jazzycat12]

Unfortunately the National Archives only have the two records we have already seen. I'll look at the Isle of Man records to see if they have anything more,.


Susan

[mmogno]

Luigi Minchella
Left Side: Personal Data and Marks (Dati E Contrassegni Personali)
Son of: Antonio
and of: Maria Teresa Grilli
Born: 4 March 1896
at: Villa Latina
District of: Sora
Stature: 1.63 m. Chest 0.87 1/2
Hair Colour: Black and straight 
Nose: greco = greek
Chin: small
Eyes: brown
Colour: Rosy
Teeth: Healthy
Particular Signs: None mentioned
Profession: Contadino (Peasant)
Can he read and write: A little
Enlisted: Villa Latina

Enlistment, Service, Promotions and other Military Changes (Arruolamento, Servizi, Promozioni ed altre variazioni matricolari)

Conscript 1st Category, class 1896, District of Frosinone
6 October 1915: Left with unlimited leave.
24 November 1915: Called to the army and giunto = went.
6 December 1915: Assigned in the 14º Infantry Regiment
10 March 1916: Assigned in the 222? Infantry Regiment
20 March 1916: Went in territory declared in state of war
12 April 1917: Assigned in the Dep. 93 Infantry Regiment.
20 June 1918: Assigned to 164 Infantry Regiment.
13 September 1919 (probably an error for 1918): Assigned to 202 Infantry Regiment.
15 genn. = Jan. 1919: Assigned in the 66 Infantry of Marcia (Fanteria di Marcia – you can google this)
18 January 1919: Inviato in congedo illimitato = sent in unlimited leave (crossed out). Assigned in the Comando d'armata?
13 7mbre = September 1919: Assigned in the 22° Corps (Corpo D'armata /21?)
15 December 1919: Assigned in the Dep. Infantry Frosinone And sent in unlimited leave in mind of Circular 613 G.M . 1919

During the time of his service in the army his conduct was good and he served with fidelity and honour.
Ha percepito il premio di smobilitazione = he has received an award – Premio di Smobilitazione
(https://s4.postimg.org/vl5t039d9/premio ... azione.png)

Ha percepito il Pacco Vestiario
(http://www.carabinieri.it/arma/curiosit ... -vestiario)
Verified on 27 January 1921

[jazzycat12]

Mmogno

Thanks so much for filling in the blank spaces. Between you and Angela you have done a wonderful job!

Thank you also for the links explaining the words and description of the clothing pack!



Susan

[AngelaGrace56]

Mmogno

Thanks so much for filling in the blank spaces. Between you and Angela you have done a wonderful job!

Thank you also for the links explaining the words and description of the clothing pack!

Susan

Si, grazie mmogno. Come sempre, molto utile e interessante.

Angela