Please help with the translation of my great grandmother's death record #18

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jrbak
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Please help with the translation of my great grandmother's death record #18

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Hi again,
I have found the death record now of my great grandmother, Enricetta Pastore and was wondering if her record could be translated for me. I can't thank you enough for your help.
Jefferie (jrbak)


https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1 ... 1292374905
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dmt1955
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Re: Please help with the translation of my great grandmother's death record #18

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death act #18 dated 27 Aug 1928
Luigi Negri, age 73, mattress maker?, and Amilcare? Lavaricco, age 48, tailor, both residing in Piverone, declare Enrichetta Pastore dead on 27 Aug at hour 4 in the house at Via Valle #240, age 67, housewife, born and residing in Piverone, of deceased Ferdinando, farmer, residing in Piverone in life and of deceased Maria Bertolo, residing in Piverone in life, married to Luigi Negri. Witnesses to declaration are Oreste Lavaricco, 52, tailor and Abele Negri, 29, farmer.

donna
Locations of interest: Ariano Irpino, Altavilla Irpina, Montaguto, Volturrara Irpina, Paternopoli, San Mango Sul Calore
https://ArianoIrpinoGenealogy.weebly.com/
https://paternopoligenealogy.weebly.com/
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Re: Please help with the translation of my great grandmother's death record #18

Post by dmt1955 »

jeffrie....so then Maria died between Jan 1922 and 27 Aug 1928......

donna
Locations of interest: Ariano Irpino, Altavilla Irpina, Montaguto, Volturrara Irpina, Paternopoli, San Mango Sul Calore
https://ArianoIrpinoGenealogy.weebly.com/
https://paternopoligenealogy.weebly.com/
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Re: Please help with the translation of my great grandmother's death record #18

Post by jrbak »

Dear Donna,
Thank you so much for your translation. I was unable to go onto italiangenealogy.com for a day or so and missed your translation of great grandmother's death record. I am so excited to learn the possible years of the death date for her mother Maria Bertola. I am now steps closer thanks to your help!! I will look again however, I did look a few times already and could not find it. I have looked under Bertola (the maiden name and surname Pastore). Any thoughts as to how I search? I am finding everyone else. From the sound of the records I don't think she remarried.
Thanks again for all your help.
Best Regards,
Jefferie (jrbak)
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Re: Please help with the translation of my great grandmother's death record #18

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Hi Donna, I placed another post today; after giving it another try I located two records, one of which I think is my Maria Bertola but will wait to see.
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Re: Please help with the translation of my great grandmother's death record #18

Post by dmt1955 »

jefferie,
italian woman do not take husband's surname - they keep their family (father's) surname.
Locations of interest: Ariano Irpino, Altavilla Irpina, Montaguto, Volturrara Irpina, Paternopoli, San Mango Sul Calore
https://ArianoIrpinoGenealogy.weebly.com/
https://paternopoligenealogy.weebly.com/
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Re: Please help with the translation of my great grandmother's death record #18

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Dear Donna (dmt1955),
Thank you for telling me this so she would have been under Bertola. Would you mind looking at the post I did stating "Help with translation of death record of 2nd great grandmother Maria Bertola Pastore". Here, I had the two posts, one of which I thought was my 2nd great grandmother but it turned out she was three yrs. old and no familiar family members although I do not know who her parents were. The other never married. These are the only Maria Bertola Pastore (using these names) death records between 1892 and 1899. Could she have died at a hospital? I just cannot figure why I am not finding her? I am not giving up; this is a real challenge but just don't know of another avenue unless the dates are wrong in the other records (1892-1898); I will search back 1-2 years to cover more base.
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Re: Please help with the translation of my great grandmother's death record #18

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Jefferie
A couple of ideas....
if the town has Atti Diversi, search those. The are acts which include, death that occurred in other locations, stillbirths, change of residency, recognition of a child, etc. So, if she died, say,in an out-of-town hospital, it would be recorded in Atti Diversi.

Have you ever found their marriage act? that would ensure her parents names.

there is always a possibility, however remote, that maria was recorded as alive or dead when the opposite was true. all you lose is time by extending the search years.

i will think more on this as i can short on time at the moment. others might also have ideas.

donna
Locations of interest: Ariano Irpino, Altavilla Irpina, Montaguto, Volturrara Irpina, Paternopoli, San Mango Sul Calore
https://ArianoIrpinoGenealogy.weebly.com/
https://paternopoligenealogy.weebly.com/
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1857 Marriage Record NO 12: Ferdinando Pastore and Maria Bertola

Post by AngelaGrace56 »

1857 Marriage Record No 12: Ferdinando Pastore and Maria Bertola
Maria Bertola was 19 (circa 1838). Her parents were Antonio Bertola and the deceased Giacinta Oriona? (It records Ferdinando's mother as "Madalena" not "Maria" Borghesio​? Possibly her birth name was Maria Madalena?
Here's the link to the record: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cat=442795

I'm actually racing out the door so don't have time to translate this record. You can post it separately and someone will do this for you.

Before finding this record, I also looked for Maria Bertola's Death Record, going page by page, and like you, without success. I can see that some errors have been made in the records that you have found, so at least now, knowing the actual names of her parents will be of help and hopefully you will also be able to work backward further from this record. Hope this makes sense. Sorry I'm in a rush.

Angela
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Re: Please help with the translation of my great grandmother's death record #18

Post by dmt1955 »

GREAT find Angela! here you go Jefferie.....

Marriage Act #12 17 Feb 1857 in Parish San Lorenzo
Ferdinando Pastore, age 30, native of Piverone, Parish San Lorenzo, son of Giovanni and deceased Madalena Borghosio
Maria Bertola, age 19, native of Piverone, Parish San Lorenzo, daughter of Antonio and deceased Giacinta Oriona

donna
Locations of interest: Ariano Irpino, Altavilla Irpina, Montaguto, Volturrara Irpina, Paternopoli, San Mango Sul Calore
https://ArianoIrpinoGenealogy.weebly.com/
https://paternopoligenealogy.weebly.com/
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Re: Please help with the translation of my great grandmother's death record #18

Post by AngelaGrace56 »

dmt1955 wrote: 09 Jul 2019, 02:22 GREAT find Angela! here you go Jefferie.....

Marriage Act #12 17 Feb 1857 in Parish San Lorenzo
Ferdinando Pastore, age 30, native of Piverone, Parish San Lorenzo, son of Giovanni and deceased Madalena Borghosio
Maria Bertola, age 19, native of Piverone, Parish San Lorenzo, daughter of Antonio and deceased Giacinta Oriona

donna
Thank you, Donna. Now that I have had time to look through some records, I believe the correct spelling of Maria Bertola's mother is Giacinta Orione.

Angela
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Marriage: Giovanni Pastore and Maria Borghesio

Post by AngelaGrace56 »

Here is the 1823 Marriage Record for Giovanni Pastore and Maria Magdalena Borghesio (parents of Ferdinando Pastore, grandparentso of Enrichetta Pastore). I suggest you repost this as a Latin translation request and one of our Latin experts will translate for you. I don't actually read Latin but I'm understanding Giovanni's father was Georgio, the son of Giovanni, and his mother was Catarina Zucchino. Maria Magadalena's parents were Giovanni Battista Borghesio, who (Giovanni) was the son of deceased Petro Borghesio and of Maria Baratto?

Pastore and Borghesio 1823 Marriage No 4: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cat=442795


The following is the death record of Giovanni Pastore (Ferdinando Pastore's father, and Enrichetta Pastore's grandfather):

Death Record No 7: Giovanni Battista Pastore, 65 yo, contadino, native of Piverone, widower of Madalena Borghesio, son of the deceased Giorgia Giacinto? and the deceased Catarina Zucchino. Date of Death 27 January 1865, Piverone

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cat=442795

Angela
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Marriage Record: Antonio Bertola and Giacinta Orione

Post by AngelaGrace56 »

The following record should be the marriage record of Antonio Bertola and Giacinta Orione (Maria Bertola's parents). Taking a quick look Antonio's father was Lorenzo? and his mother Giovanina? Maria Olearo. Giacinta's father was possibly Francesco Orione and her mother ? Favaro. Anyways, I'm guessing here, so it would be a good idea to post this Latin record for a full translation.

Bertola and Orione 1836 Marriage: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cat=442795

I've started looking for Antonio Bertola's Death Record and have run out of time now.

Angela
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Re: Please help with the translation of my great grandmother's death record #18

Post by jrbak »

Dears, Donna (dmt55) and Angela (Angelagrace56),
Oh my; what do I say but thank you, thank you, thank you both for all of the research, translation and for all you are doing to help me. My time is short today but I am going to go over this slowly and deliberately the first chance I have; of each post you both wrote and will do what you have suggested and then I will get back to you or you will see my posts possibly as you have been doing. I am soooooo grateful and I can't tell you how excited I am. Thrilled is the word. Thanks so much for all the guidance and for following my ancestry and helping me. I did not want the day to go by without a thanks going out as I can't do much today or tomorrow.
Sincerely,
Jefferie (jrbak)
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Death Records: Antonio Bertola

Post by AngelaGrace56 »

You are most welcome for the help. :D

I went through all the Church Death Records from 1883 hoping I'd locate Maria Bertola's Death Record, but not there. I did however locate her father's Death Record which I was also hoping to find:

Death Act No 20 Antonio Bertola: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cat=442795


Death Act No 20 Antonio Bertola: (Church Record)
(Equipped with the sacraments of Penance, Eucharist, Holy Oil and Papal Benediction) Antonio Bertola, 83 yo, native of Piverone, living in Piverone, son of the deceased Lorenzo Bertola, and the deceased Gio Maria Ollearo, died on 26 June 1896. He was the widower of Giacinta Orione, and also the widower of second wife Angela Lavarino, the daughter of deceased Lorenzo.

His body was buried in this town's cemetery the following day.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cat=442795


Death Act No 20: Antonio Bertola son of deceased Lorenzo: (Civil Record)

Piverone: 23 June 1896

(Appearing before the official were Giuseppe Bertola, 41 yo, and Giuseppe Zucchino, 55 yo, contadini (peasants) both living in Piverone.)

They reported that at 6.20 pm today (23 June 1896), in the house in Piverone Via Valle No 282, Antonio Bertola, 83 yo, proprietario (landowner), who was born and also resided in Piverone, died. He was the son of deceased Lorenzo (Bertola), a Contadino (peasant) who lived in Piverone when living, and of the deceased Maria Ollearo, who also lived in Piverone when living. He was the widower of Angela Lavarino. (In this record there is no mention of his first with Giacinta Orione, so it is good to have the Church Record as well, which does include her name, thus confirming it is the right Antonio Bertola. Often in Italian Civil Records it happens that only the last spouse is recorded, especially as often the people declaring the death are not closely connected with the deceased person.)

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cc=1475996


(The only other explanation, besides the really good ones that have already been suggested, re not being able to locate Maria Bertola's Death Record, is that she died post 1930, when she would have been well into her ninety's. I have several ancestors who were in their 90's when they died. It did happen. Just a thought. I willl take one more look though, just in case she used a different given name later in life which was recorded on her death record?)

Angela
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