Hello,
Could someone help in translating this birth document of my 2nd great grandfather's son? I appreciate it so much.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cc=1475996
Regards,
Jefferie (jrbak)
Help with translation of birth document #34 Mercolino Pastore
Re: Help with translation of birth document #34 Mercolino Pastore
Record date: Jul 7th, 1877 at 3pm
Birth date and place: Jul 4th, at 5pm, at 180, via Negri.
Father (declarant): Ferdinando Pastore, son of deceased Giovanni, 40 years old, peasant; mother was his wife Maria Bertola, daughter of Antonio.
Notice that Ferdinando was able to sign the record, and that was quite rare at that time for a peasant.
Birth date and place: Jul 4th, at 5pm, at 180, via Negri.
Father (declarant): Ferdinando Pastore, son of deceased Giovanni, 40 years old, peasant; mother was his wife Maria Bertola, daughter of Antonio.
Notice that Ferdinando was able to sign the record, and that was quite rare at that time for a peasant.
Giuseppe "Pippo" Moccaldi
Certificate requests and genealogical researches in Italy.
Translation of your (old) documents and letters.
Legal assistance in Italy for your Italian citizenship.
Certificate requests and genealogical researches in Italy.
Translation of your (old) documents and letters.
Legal assistance in Italy for your Italian citizenship.
Re: Help with translation of birth document #34 Mercolino Pastore
Dear Pippo,
Thank you so much again for all of your translation work for me. Also, I appreciate you telling me about the handwriting of my 2nd great grandfather. I have noticed that many of my relatives there in Piverone, did sign many of their documents so someone must have been teaching them to write, I suppose. For some the handwriting was very good and for a few others not so good. Here in the U.S. (my relatives from South Carolina, North Carolina and Virginia where I have obtained wills and inventories; it was most interesting as they would list the books they owned, one of which was usually a spelling book. I learn everyday. I think a peasant was a farmer?
Thanks again,
Jefferie (jrbak)
Thank you so much again for all of your translation work for me. Also, I appreciate you telling me about the handwriting of my 2nd great grandfather. I have noticed that many of my relatives there in Piverone, did sign many of their documents so someone must have been teaching them to write, I suppose. For some the handwriting was very good and for a few others not so good. Here in the U.S. (my relatives from South Carolina, North Carolina and Virginia where I have obtained wills and inventories; it was most interesting as they would list the books they owned, one of which was usually a spelling book. I learn everyday. I think a peasant was a farmer?
Thanks again,
Jefferie (jrbak)
Re: Help with translation of birth document #34 Mercolino Pastore
Well, "contadino", that I translated as "peasant" means a generic land worker; that usually means he worked for land owners.
Whe you say "farmer", do you mean "owner of a farm"?
Whe you say "farmer", do you mean "owner of a farm"?
Giuseppe "Pippo" Moccaldi
Certificate requests and genealogical researches in Italy.
Translation of your (old) documents and letters.
Legal assistance in Italy for your Italian citizenship.
Certificate requests and genealogical researches in Italy.
Translation of your (old) documents and letters.
Legal assistance in Italy for your Italian citizenship.
Re: Help with translation of birth document #34 Mercolino Pastore
Dear Pippo,
Yes, as I am used to the Americans in the south owning their land (1800's) and I have to think about the culture at the time in Italy. Although, going back when the Lord proprietors (England) owned the land, then the people worked the land here too, before they bought their land. I have seen a couple of Italian records that say "landowner", so then that maybe distinguishes who works the land and who owns it. Am I correct? Thank you so much for your explanation. I appreciate it.
Jefferie (jrbak)
Yes, as I am used to the Americans in the south owning their land (1800's) and I have to think about the culture at the time in Italy. Although, going back when the Lord proprietors (England) owned the land, then the people worked the land here too, before they bought their land. I have seen a couple of Italian records that say "landowner", so then that maybe distinguishes who works the land and who owns it. Am I correct? Thank you so much for your explanation. I appreciate it.
Jefferie (jrbak)
Re: Help with translation of birth document #34 Mercolino Pastore
This is an issue that was several times dealt with here.
However,
"Proprietario" is someone who owns land, but does not need to work in it; he is rich enough to have others work for him ("well-off")
"Possidente" is someone who works his own land ("landowner")
"Colono", "mezzadro" or "fittavolo" works someone else's land, but shares the product with the owner or pays a rent ("tenant farmer")
"Bracciale" is a worker (not necessarily a land worker) who is daily paid for his work ("labourer")
"Contadino", as said above, is a generic term for a land worker ("peasant" or "countryman")
"Fattore" is, let's say, the farm manager, the one who works himself, and controls the work of others, on behalf of the owner
In parenthesis, you find how I translate (not necessarily correctly!) the Italian words I mentioned.
However,
"Proprietario" is someone who owns land, but does not need to work in it; he is rich enough to have others work for him ("well-off")
"Possidente" is someone who works his own land ("landowner")
"Colono", "mezzadro" or "fittavolo" works someone else's land, but shares the product with the owner or pays a rent ("tenant farmer")
"Bracciale" is a worker (not necessarily a land worker) who is daily paid for his work ("labourer")
"Contadino", as said above, is a generic term for a land worker ("peasant" or "countryman")
"Fattore" is, let's say, the farm manager, the one who works himself, and controls the work of others, on behalf of the owner
In parenthesis, you find how I translate (not necessarily correctly!) the Italian words I mentioned.
Giuseppe "Pippo" Moccaldi
Certificate requests and genealogical researches in Italy.
Translation of your (old) documents and letters.
Legal assistance in Italy for your Italian citizenship.
Certificate requests and genealogical researches in Italy.
Translation of your (old) documents and letters.
Legal assistance in Italy for your Italian citizenship.
Re: Help with translation of birth document #34 Mercolino Pastore
Dear Pippo,
Thank you so much for your very thorough explanation of the different terms. I always make a copy of the things I learn from each of you and I will use this on a go forward basis to better understand the Italian words I see in the records. I have seen "proprietario", "possidente" used before and "contadina" used many times. I am better able to see the difference among these now. Thank you again and I hope you have a good day.
Best Regards,
Jefferie (jrbak)
Thank you so much for your very thorough explanation of the different terms. I always make a copy of the things I learn from each of you and I will use this on a go forward basis to better understand the Italian words I see in the records. I have seen "proprietario", "possidente" used before and "contadina" used many times. I am better able to see the difference among these now. Thank you again and I hope you have a good day.
Best Regards,
Jefferie (jrbak)
