Italy Land Registry Records www.italianlaw.net

General Non-Genealogy Discussions.
Ask questions, chat and talk about anything.
AFConiglio
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 4
Joined: 04 Jun 2012, 19:45

Re: Italy Land Registry Records www.italianlaw.net

Post by AFConiglio »

"his firm was permitted access to all of Italy's land (abandoned) records". Why was one firm permitted access? Can any private individual gain access to this data? Does the Italian government charge for use of the database? How do we contact the actual source of the data?
User avatar
italianlaw
Rookie
Rookie
Posts: 55
Joined: 03 Mar 2007, 00:00
Location: San Francisco / Ferrara, Italy
Contact:

Re: Italy Land Registry Records www.italianlaw.net

Post by italianlaw »

To gain access to the proprietary data base one must possess certain credentials to receive authorization. The data base is maintained by the a department of the Italian Government responsible for changes to property title due to any form of alienation of the property (sales,gifting, inheritances, etc. There is a charge to use the data base. The funds derived pay the Italian staff to run the data base. Thus our office pays as well.

The data base is used by lawyers, surveyors, municipalities and other officials. In short, you cannot access it directly without Italian Government approval. Our office does have approval. So from our offices in San Francisco or Italy, we can see the records on all property transactions, wills, family members (alive or deceased decades ago)still on title to property.

Our mission is to claim back unclaimed family property according to Italian succession law. There are 1000s of abandoned properties. The descendants do not know that they still have a right to the property even after many decades. Genealogy buffs never reason in terms of property. This is an uphill battle to teach for Italian Americans, Italian Canadians, etc. that genealogy is not limited to family tree building through birth records, church records, ship manifests, etc.

Land record data is a treasure trove of information, an almost one stop shopping for one's family roots which includes property maps as well.

Anthony Alioto
http://www.italianlaw.net
San Francisco
italianlaw@comcast.net
MoPet
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 3
Joined: 15 May 2013, 00:00

Re: Italy Land Registry Records www.italianlaw.net

Post by MoPet »

Mr Alioto- I have a question for you but your site isn't accepting my message when I try to send it. I am in search of records for roperty transactions, and information about family members who may have received title to property that belonged to my great grandparents in Poggio Imperiale. I don't think the land in question was abandonded, but it's a possibility. My great grandfather passed away in the area of Poggio Imperiale some time after 1944. Afterward, his wife emigrated to the US to live, leaving adult children who were settled in Poggio Imperiale, and taking younger children to the US with her. She returned to Italy later on to divide up the property between the adult children who had remained in Italy and were bickering about ownership. My interest is in locating that property, so that I may see it and photograph it on an upcoming trip to Italy, and not necessariy to see if it was abandonded or to claim it. That there may be descendants in the area is of interst as well. Might this be something you can help with? I can provide dates and locations for births, deaths and marriage records.

Thanks!
detulliolaw
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 1
Joined: 03 Jun 2013, 12:15

Re: Italy Land Registry Records www.italianlaw.net

Post by detulliolaw »

We deal with a lot of Italian Succession and the right to land is often overlooked. Many properties in the south of Italy also have an enfiteusi which is where the land owner has given the right to another 'farmer' to effectively cultivate this land and make a living from the goods produced. Quite often in cases of abandonment the person with the enfiteusi takes over the land and this right is passed from father to son, the ownership right is often forgotten and so these cases need time and legal support to resolve.
marymary52
Veteran
Veteran
Posts: 200
Joined: 16 May 2012, 03:26

Re: Italy Land Registry Records www.italianlaw.net

Post by marymary52 »

I have the Alioto family name in my family. Related to Pietro Torre from Messina. Then New York, Florida and then San Francisco. He would hang out at the restaurant back in the late 50's early 60's He died in San Francisco in 1964 around 66years? Any collection with the Torre last name?
MichaelMaranda
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 20
Joined: 25 Apr 2014, 17:37

Re: Italy Land Registry Records www.italianlaw.net

Post by MichaelMaranda »

Did Italian Succession Law change? I was told that the property used to pass only to male heirs. Was it always equal distribution or was there gender discrimination, or if it changed, when did that change occur?
User avatar
italianlaw
Rookie
Rookie
Posts: 55
Joined: 03 Mar 2007, 00:00
Location: San Francisco / Ferrara, Italy
Contact:

Re: Italy Land Registry Records www.italianlaw.net

Post by italianlaw »

Italian succession law has not changed. Upon the death of anyone holding assets in Italy, even those living outside Italy, the property will transfer to all children in equal shares. This does not happen automatically, of course. Documents must be filed to transfer ownership to the "next generations". (Our offices in San Francisco and Italy file the necessary documents)

Urban legend: only the oldest male inherits. I am so tired of hearing this falsehood. In the present Italian Civil Code with all its changes over the decades gender has never been a factor, this includes the period prior to the Civile Code, i,e, lo statuto Albertino. I cannot speak to the period prior to 1865

Anthony Alioto
www.italianlaw.net
San Francisco
MichaelMaranda
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 20
Joined: 25 Apr 2014, 17:37

Re: Italy Land Registry Records www.italianlaw.net

Post by MichaelMaranda »

Thanks for clarifying!
PeterTimber
Master
Master
Posts: 6817
Joined: 16 Dec 2007, 18:57
Location: Yonkers NY

Re: Italy Land Registry Records www.italianlaw.net

Post by PeterTimber »

Greetings Mr. Alioto I took a sabbatical from Italian Genelaogy for a few years and have now returned after failing to convince Mr Obama to retire. I revisited my old haunts and you are one of my favorites. Hope to be of help to clients on this forum. Peter
~Peter~
User avatar
italianlaw
Rookie
Rookie
Posts: 55
Joined: 03 Mar 2007, 00:00
Location: San Francisco / Ferrara, Italy
Contact:

Italian inheritance rights for non Italians www.italianlaw.net

Post by italianlaw »

This Forum on unclaimed Italian property has not been visited in seven years.

We continue to ask clients when they call: what specific property?, how much land? Is there a 10 room abandoned ville or a one run shack?

We insist with a dialogue that starts by running a title report in the name of someone who immigrated and abandoned the property is still on title after 75 years or longer? The Italian Property Register has the answer. Time to search 10 minutes IF you have a name, a date of birth (or just a year) and a town or province.

For those who have not been to law school in Italy, make no embarrassing pronouncements about squatters rights for you not know what you are talking about. It is a complex subject with the principal of possession (il possesso) as the fundamental legal concept

Essentially there is cases of adverse possession (L'usucapione) or cases of eminent domain (l'esproprio). The Italian Civil Code sets down the rules. So do not draw conclusions with a title report in hand. Oh let's add this too: there are not taxes on land in Italy only structures. (Back taxes on homes can only go back 5 years!)

And one must not state that the property has been taken over by the Italian Government for lack of payment of taxes. This is possible but unusual. So no generalizations please.

While we are at it: Never make the error of thinking that the oldest male has property rights. This has never been true going as far back as 1861, a time when even the Statuto Albertino was in place ... which preceded the present Civil Cose

It has been 10 years that we have been recovering property in Italy for Italian and Canadian Italians.

Anthony Alioto
www.italianlaw.net
San Francisco / Ferrara, Italy
User avatar
italianlaw
Rookie
Rookie
Posts: 55
Joined: 03 Mar 2007, 00:00
Location: San Francisco / Ferrara, Italy
Contact:

Re: Italy Land Registry Records www.italianlaw.net

Post by italianlaw »

Correction: the last post was in Aug 2014.

Anthony Alioto
jennabet
Master
Master
Posts: 1396
Joined: 14 Jul 2010, 20:28
Location: Ancestral Homeland - Abruzzo Italy

Re: Italy Land Registry Records www.italianlaw.net

Post by jennabet »

While we're on this topic, I'd like to relate a true story. My friends, born and married in Rome, went to the USA as newlyweds. Before they left Italy, they purchased a flat in a small city near Rome and rented it out. After living and working in USA for 37 years, it was time to retire back in Italy so they gave the renters of their flat notice that they must vacate. When they did not vacate, my friend's husband returned to Italy to get his flat back and he actually moved in with the renters setting up a cot for himself to sleep on in the entrance hall. Even though the owner and the renters were at odds, the mother in the family of renters always cooked for the owner sleeping in the hallway but she also told the police that he molested her. Eventually any charges were dismissed, the renters moved out and my friends got their flat back. This sounds like something you would see in a Felini film but these kinds of things really do go on in Italy. Felini must base his stories on real events.
brendariani
Veteran
Veteran
Posts: 168
Joined: 29 Sep 2016, 20:36

Re: Italy Land Registry Records www.italianlaw.net

Post by brendariani »

Hi, I have recently found my great grandfather is listed on a piece of land in Barga which his father owned. How can I find out if anyone is using the land or if my family can claim please?
User avatar
italianlaw
Rookie
Rookie
Posts: 55
Joined: 03 Mar 2007, 00:00
Location: San Francisco / Ferrara, Italy
Contact:

Re: Italy Land Registry Records www.italianlaw.net

Post by italianlaw »

This is an old email regarding property in Barga, in the Province of Parma. To discover who is on title to the property..... as opposed to using it..... I need more detail. Contact our office.

Anthony Alioto
www.italianlaw.net
San Francisco
User avatar
mmogno
Master
Master
Posts: 3706
Joined: 14 Mar 2016, 22:29

Re: Italy Land Registry Records www.italianlaw.net

Post by mmogno »

italianlaw wrote: 29 Sep 2020, 08:26 This is an old email regarding property in Barga, in the Province of Lucca. To discover who is on title to the property..... as opposed to using it..... I need more detail. Contact our office.

Anthony Alioto
www.italianlaw.net
San Francisco
Emilio Lussu: “Che ne sarebbe della civiltà del mondo, se l’ingiusta violenza si potesse sempre imporre senza resistenza?” 🇺🇦 Slava Ukraine! 🇺🇦 🇮🇱תחי ישראל🇮🇱
Post Reply